Chat log from the meeting on 2017-12-26
From OpenSimulator
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: hey, George.
[11:02] George Equus: Hi Andrew :)
[11:03] Kayaker Magic: Hello!
[11:03] Teleport offer sent to Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002
[11:03] Kayaker Magic: Over the holidaze, I managed to break a few things and submit two new mantises.
[11:03] Kayaker Magic: mantusi?
[11:03] George Equus: We thought meeting maybe was at old place.. no one here when arrived
[11:04] George Equus: mantisii I think :)
[11:04] George Equus: plural latin is ii
[11:04] Kayaker Magic: It was here last time I came, but in a lecture hall behind me. This is more cozy here.
[11:04] George Equus: Prefere here
[11:04] George Equus: hall is bit cold ish
[11:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I couldn't be here last week (althought I forget why). Some family thing, IIRC. I would have suggested cancelling this weeks meeting as it is Boxing Day in North America. Prime shopping day.
[11:05] George Equus: Red day here,
[11:05] Kayaker Magic: Where is Ubit located? If he is here I can browbeat him about my new mantusii
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: Here comes two more people!
[11:07] George Equus: Up on patio folk
[11:08] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: hi
[11:08] George Equus: Hi Selby
[11:08] George Equus: This pose make me nervous...
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Selby. I see you found your own way here rahter than using the TP I sent.
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: why is that George?
[11:09] Kayaker Magic: Where did Selby go? He was here a second ago....
[11:09] George Equus: Dangling legs like that...
[11:09] Kayaker Magic: There you are!
[11:09] George Equus: Better..
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: There you go, George
[11:10] George Equus: Hi Paela
[11:10] paela argus: hi
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Paela
[11:10] paela argus: hello andrew
[11:10] Kayaker Magic whispers: I love that rigged string of holiday lights!
[11:11] Kayaker Magic: I looked at the script, and it uses the same zero-lag trick I discovered to make blinking lights.
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: What rigged string?
[11:12] George Equus: Paela's
[11:12] George Equus: Hi Bill
[11:12] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Greetings
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: oh. I've been wanting to do that sort of effect with Christmas lights but the scripts would be high runtime.
[11:13] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Yes that tp would not work, so I came to osgrid and found Hurliman
[11:13] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I am here
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: You make the mesh lights so they only use part of the UV map, then animate a texture to slide different colors across the lights.
[11:13] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: you can just use a sliding texture ,
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: The script can be removed, and the lites keep blinking!
[11:13] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: ohh Kayaker beat me to it
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I may have to mess around with that. The best Christmas lights I've seen were over in SL. I wonder if that is what they used. They are the best Xmas lights I've ever seen.
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: I gave away a bunch of lights at OSCC that were done this way.
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: Don't have them in inventory with me today...
[11:15] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: the sliding texture trick, is nice, and if it is something that needs to be invis when off, just make part of the texture alpha, and as it slides they vanish
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: You could pass me one over in VH next time you are there, if you have them there.
[11:16] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I have an flashing arrow that is really old done that way
[11:16] George Equus: Magic String Curved ?
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: That is one of them!
[11:16] George Equus: one white, one colour
[11:16] George Equus: is great
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't done much with texturing mesh. I am in the middle of making a guitar that will need texturing eventually.
[11:17] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002 gave you floor arrows owner say "/5 color".
[11:17] Kayaker Magic: you can set glow, and it turns off on the trans areas of the texture also!
[11:18] Kayaker Magic: Andrew: As a matter of fact, I first made these textures for VH when they had a holiday sim that was brought to its knees by a blinking light script that used llSleep.
[11:18] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: if you get them I gave you a set of arrows that does that Andrew, you can look at how it is done
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: ty, Bill.
[11:19] Kayaker Magic: 1000 blinking lights grabbed all the script threads and nothing else could work.
[11:19] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I never use sleep anymore, I use a llGetWallclock +n and compare
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, yeah. I seem to remember that situation.
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, you can use llSleep but you need to use it wisely.
[11:20] Kayaker Magic: Before he left, Justin was looking into co-routines to try and fix llSleep.
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, Monk.
[11:20] Kayaker Magic: I miss Justin!
[11:20] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yeah I use sleep but few and far between
[11:20] George Equus: Hi Monk
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I use it mostly for one shot delays and not something repetetive.
[11:20] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yes , ditto
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: If repetetive, not something like a 1 second timer but much longer delay.
[11:21] paela argus: sleep are the best :)
[11:21] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I still like to use an llGetWallClock and a timer for long delays
[11:21] Kayaker Magic: llSleep locks up one of the script threads, you should NEVER use it for long delays!
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't think of any other way to get long delays.
[11:22] paela argus: is same in other stuff server never use delai for more 60 sec is a default ^^
[11:22] Kayaker Magic: llSetTimerEvent
[11:22] paela argus: delay*
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: oh, yes. of course. You had me thinking of something else.
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: Monk Woandard off.
[11:24] Kayaker Magic: One of the barriers to people using llSetTimerEvent was that Melanie insisted on a minimum timer of 0.5 seconds.
[11:25] Kayaker Magic: I noticed the default .ini file for OSGrid now has a 0.2 second timer limit.
[11:25] paela argus: maybe never looking :)
[11:25] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002 whispers: something like this ..
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: If you call an event timer often with a short time delay it will push your script runtime up.
[11:25] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002:
float delay = 300;
float statictime;
default
{
state_entry() {
llSetTimerEvent(30);
statictime = llGetWallclock()
}
timer() {
if(llGetWallclock() >= statictime+delay)
{
llOwnerSay("timer expired");
statictime = llGetWallclock()
}
}
}
[11:26] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: there are typos in that
[11:26] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: LOL
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, you can use other time related functions. llGetTime, llResetTime, and one other. I think those might be the right names.
[11:27] Kayaker Magic: llGetAndReset
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: Right.
[11:27] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yes llReset time works, but, not if you want to call multiple timer functions based on when the script fired
[11:28] Kayaker Magic: I work hard to make all my scripts completely event driven, no loops waiting for anything.
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't needed to use more than one of those at a time.
[11:28] Monk Priestov: hi all
[11:28] paela argus: hi monk
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, that is the way to do it.
[11:28] Andrew Hellershanks: wb, Monk
[11:28] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002:
float delay = 300;
float statictime;
default
{
state_entry() {
llSetTimerEvent(30);
statictime = llGetWallclock();
}
timer() {
if(llGetWallclock() >= statictime+delay)
{
llOwnerSay("300 has pased");
}
if(llGetWallclock() >= statictime+delay+delay)
{
llOwnerSay("600 has pased reseting");
statictime = llGetWallclock();
}
}
}
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: Sheera isn't here today so I better start a notecard for this meeting.
[11:29] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: obviously there is some logic missing in that
[11:30] Kayaker Magic: And it is half past the hour with no Ubit, I guess he is not coming.
[11:30] George Equus: I log it Andrew
[11:30] Kayaker Magic: So I'll mention two new mantusii and hope he reads about them in the log.
[11:30] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Doesn't seem like it. I mentioned the meeting in both the developer chat and the core chat.
[11:32] Kayaker Magic: In mantus 8273 I show how CHANGED_TELEPORT is sometimes sent to a script in an attachment when you are just walking or flying your avatar over a region crossing.
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: George, good to know. You will be my backup just in case I crash unexpectedly and lose some of the log.
[11:33] Kayaker Magic: Consensus it that it should only fire when actually teleporting. Although if not then it should fire on every crossing not just some.
[11:33] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002 gave you long delay.
[11:33] paela argus: any better code are planned for the issue load avatar ?
[11:33] George Equus: OK Andrew :)'
[11:34] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, Interesting. Does it always fire on crossing?
[11:35] Kayaker Magic: No! Only on certain directions.
[11:35] Kayaker Magic: In mantis 8276 I wrote a small scripted "vehicle" that catches a region crossing bug that locks up a script in a strange way.
[11:35] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, that is odd. It should either do it all the time where a crossing would be like a TP, or it should never do it. Those sometimes situations are a pain.
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, You'be been torturing the code over your holidays? ;)
[11:37] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Yeah I have noticed the occasional script reset on my vehicles, I went to on some, storing the throttle and av key in the description and grabbing it on reset, so at least you can keep driving, unless it borks the controls
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, are you also finding that it only happens on some crossing?
[11:37] Kayaker Magic: A few weeks ago someone was complaining about not having much to talk about, I said I would break something!
[11:37] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:38] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I don't see it very often , usually when there is a timer that fires at the moment of crossing
[11:38] Kayaker Magic: The problem I am having is not a reset, instead the script stops running. And a reset does not get it going again.
[11:38] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: it is like the timer get's lost and the whole shebang resets
[11:38] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, ok. That could be a form of race condition. The timer event is likely to get lost during the crossing.
[11:39] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, the normal procedure for setting a script to run also doesn't help?
[11:39] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I did some test with a real talkative timer event to verify that the timer was puking, but only when it hits at the exact right time
[11:39] Kayaker Magic: I was looking for timer stops, lllistens canceled, controls revoked, but found that the script was not running and could not fix any of those things itself.
[11:39] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: or should say exact wrong time
[11:40] Kayaker Magic: In the past, I have restarted timers and such when a CHANGED_REGION fired, bu that did not help in this case
[11:40] George Equus: I got a script (patrol bot) that only run once, never reset until prim containing it is rezed again, then run once and stop
[11:41] George Equus: within a region, no border crossing involved in it
[11:41] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: well the only difference that I know that is a big diff and should not make a difference is I use physical vehicles, so they are not as reliant on the script for positioning they just kind of slide across on momentum
[11:41] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: then they pick back up due to me saving the avatar and throttle
[11:41] Kayaker Magic: In that mantis I used llSetKeyframedMotion to cross back and forth over the border until it fails.
[11:42] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Yes , which is why I pointed that out, mine which I seem to have less problem with do not use KFM
[11:45] Kayaker Magic: Andrew, I'm trying to mark one of my old mantusii fixed, and it will not change to green. What do I have to do to get that?
[11:46] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I think Resolved makes it green
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm not sure of the colour coding used. I'd have to read the legend at the bottom of the page.
[11:47] Kayaker Magic: I changed it to resoved some time ago, didn't do it. I just edited it and changed Resolution to fixed, didn't change color.
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, which #?
[11:47] Kayaker Magic: 8011
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I like KFM for making things move.
[11:47] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: oh it is assigned
[11:48] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: don't think it will change unless the assigned person changes it
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm an admin for mantis.
[11:48] Kayaker Magic LOVES KFM for moving things. I'm never using a physics engine again!
[11:48] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002 LOVES Physics Engine, will never use KFM for vehicles again ..
[11:49] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: LOL
[11:49] Kayaker Magic: LOL
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, you are then at the mercy of which script engine is available.
[11:49] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, you should have been at Kayakers talk at the OSCC about "Why I don't need a physics engine." :)
[11:50] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: You should go drive my boats Kayaker, you might have a different, opinion, not that I would want you to stop using KFM, your stuff is great, but , you have never seen physical boats like mine ..
[11:50] Kayaker Magic: That is only one thing I like: I can write a vehicle and it works everywhere in the metaverse, under Havoc, PhysX, ODE, ubODE, Bullet. It just works.
[11:50] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I was at that talk
[11:50] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I agree with that Kayake
[11:50] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: r
[11:51] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: but I don't sell my boats, so not really a concern of mine
[11:51] Kayaker Magic: Yeah, if you have control of the environment, you can make reliable physical vehicles.
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks nods
topics/discussions/issues for today?
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, A standard physics engine? You may be dreaming there. :)
[11:53] paela argus: yes why the load avatar are so slow last years working very fast now very slow ?
[11:53] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: let me show you a little youtube, not bragging, or trying not to really, but I worked my ass off to get these things to run good ... and they do ..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl-K52PztkQ
[11:53] Notecard saved
[11:54] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002 shouts: and this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lOmhaaFvQw
[11:54] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: oops
[11:54] Kayaker Magic: Paela: do you know what version of opensim you saw fast and what version slow loading on?
[11:54] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: did not mean to shout
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I had a touring balloon that used bouyancy but it didn't work. I was going to change it to use KFM instead. I did do a test with KFM aross sim boundaries and it worked nicely enough.
[11:55] paela argus: actual version rezz avi very slow in the the code 0.9.0 ( one year before working very well )
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: np, Bill. I sometimes whisper when I get my fingers tied in a know. I don't even know the shortcut that triggers it. :)
[11:57] Kayaker Magic: So many things effect avatar rezzing, it would be difficult to track down. Can you try the same avatar in a 0.8.2 region in OSGrid, then find a 0.9.1 region also in OSGrid and report what the rez times were?
[11:58] paela argus: ya i can try
[11:58] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I'm not seeing slow rez, on my bastardized version of the httptests branch
[11:58] paela argus: with a avi template is not a problem :)
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, My machine is a bit slow right now due to running this viewer and all the browser windows/tabs I have open so I'm not able to access the mantis at the moment. Hit me up on Skype after the meeting and I'll check on it for you.
[12:00] Kayaker Magic: OK, thanks.
[12:02] Kayaker Magic: Bye! Lunchtime for me!
[12:02] paela argus: later kayaker
[12:02] George Equus: Thanks Andrew,
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: paela, The PHP based mutelist module I wrote works well. I haven't tested it in 0.8.2
[12:03] George Equus: If you need transcript let me know in IM
[12:03] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I tested it , it works fine, going to put it on my whole grid soon
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, ty George. I have it all.
[12:04] George Equus: ok, good
[12:04] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: bye all
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I start saving as the meeting progresses
[12:04] Monk Priestov: bye all
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Monk.
[12:04] George Equus: I'm off. cu next year. Happy New Year!
[12:04] paela argus: i go too :) bye bye :)
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Happy New Year, everyone
