Chat log from the meeting on 2017-09-05

[11:13] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: so whats new and exciting in Opensim this week?
[11:13] Unknown.UserUPUUI @thekaz.ddns.net:8002: :_)
[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Robert just pushed a few updates to Bullet
[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Yes. Robert just pushed some raycasting changes to BulletSim.
[11:14] Unknown.UserUPUUI @thekaz.ddns.net:8002: @ Gavin / new updates to Bullet / can you elaborate ?
[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: noting more than Andrew said. I noticed just before we started
[11:15] Unknown.UserUPUUI @thekaz.ddns.net:8002: :_)
[11:18] George Equus: what you get from pages around the world and OSGrid servers that matters... plenty of bottle necks on the way
[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I also have a pending fix for a bug that only occurs when trying to start a region with XEngine disabled.
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: BTW, the updates made to BS by Robert also includes an update to a newer version of Buillet for macOS.
[11:22] Ubit Umarov: and thats on a working branch...
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what commit has the macOS udate?
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is one from 2017-08-18 19:44 that I built
[11:23] Ubit Umarov: err or master already
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The macOS reference in the changelog is from Aug. 18. An update to 2.86 of Bullet.
[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yeah, so I also need to rebuild that for the latest changes
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: yeap all on master
[11:24] Ubit Umarov: there goes master being on bugs fix more :)
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Care to say that again in English, Ubit? :P
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm having trouble parsing that last statement.
[11:25] Ubit Umarov: nahh not now
[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I have also rebuilt libopenjpeg-dotnet-2-1.5.0-dotnet-1.dylib Universal (both 32 and 64 bit) and I'll post it to Mantis tomorrow as it is stable
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: just the usual.. we are waiting for bug reports to release postfixes
[11:26] Ubit Umarov: not anymore :p
[11:28] Ubit Umarov: seems robert did not update dlls for mac
[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: macOS does not use dlls
[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: at least not for this
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: blabla semantics
[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not at all ;-)
[11:29] Ubit Umarov: :p
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: they are libraries.. they are dynamic... semantics
[11:30] Ubit Umarov: dylib.. bahh
[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: thank you! :-)
[11:31] Ubit Umarov: pure semantics :p
[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the point is that the end user running macOS does not know what a dll is, as it does not exist on their system
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: i was talking mainly to you.. P
[11:32] Ubit Umarov: not many here use mac
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was talking to those reading the log also :-)
[11:33] Ubit Umarov: well you need ask robert the details
[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I will
[11:36] Arielle Popstar: whats this mean: frozen avatars should not do local teleports. Possible none should not be allowed, but that may be abusive
[11:36] Arielle Popstar: the double negative notwithstanding
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: guess means what it says
[11:37] Ubit Umarov: yeap a extra not there
[11:37] Arielle Popstar: why would the avatar be frozen?
[11:38] George Equus: Fear maybe? Mice on the floor?
[11:38] Arielle Popstar: ;)\
[11:38] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: lol
[11:38] Ubit Umarov: because someone did freeze it ?
[11:38] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: a mini ice age effecting only that avatar ???
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: you are really asking that ?
[11:39] Arielle Popstar: yes
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you would usually freeze an intruder / griefer / copybotter
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: or something like that
[11:39] Ubit Umarov: yeap
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: not sure we do block local chat on that
[11:40] Arielle Popstar: ok so not frozen because console is busy with other things
[11:40] George Equus: Didn't know you could do such a thing
[11:40] Ubit Umarov: Arielle its a standard viewer comand
[11:40] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: nor did I George
[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it is a deliberate action from a parcel owner
[11:40] Andrew Hellershanks: Could be frozen due to a previously failed TP
[11:40] Arielle Popstar: for a grid or region god
[11:41] Arielle Popstar: yes Andrew
[11:41] Arielle Popstar: thats why i was asking
[11:41] George Equus: Ahh ok so there is a command for it when on your own region/parcel only
[11:41] Leighton.Marjoram @grid.lighthousepoint.co.uk:8002: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Freeze
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some viewer have it on the avatar drop down menu
[11:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Kokua does (should have)
[11:42] Ubit Umarov: seen it on all
[11:42] George Equus: Just checked, not in FS here anyway
[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you don't have the privs here George
[11:43] George Equus: Precisely, need to be "god" is to say must be on my own regions?
[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think your own land is sufficient
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: I am just remembering that freezing an avatar was partly useful in dealing with griefers so they had to stay while you had a talk with them about their behaviour..
[11:43] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as is ejecting someone from your land
[11:44] Arielle Popstar: i have Freeze in my FS
[11:44] George Equus: Right , OK
[11:44] Arielle Popstar: was going to try Ubit  :)
[11:45] Ubit Umarov: well that commit was just bc frozen avatars could do local tps.. not a nice feature
[11:45] Arielle Popstar: anyone want to be guinnea pig?
[11:45] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: give him a sweater first
[11:45] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:45] George Equus: hehe
[11:45] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Works also on group managed land where you have group powers for that.
[11:46] Ubit Umarov: ( you should know that your freeze may not work, but my eject will :p )
[11:46] Arielle Popstar: lol\
[11:46] Arielle Popstar: you sure it being Paela's version ? :p
[11:47] Ubit Umarov: hmm just remembered another thing that should be blocked.. need to check
[11:48] Ubit Umarov: not sure why .. some people didn't knew freeze was there :p
[11:49] Arielle Popstar: well i was just curious as to the context of the freeze as it wasnt specified
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: AFAIK it does not work in SL
[11:50] Arielle Popstar: freezes happen without being done intentionally
[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is a hang Arielle :-))
[11:50] Ubit Umarov: it is not the purpose of commits messages to teach
[11:51] Ubit Umarov: they are for ppl that do know the code, not for those that don't even know the avaiable operations
[11:51] Arielle Popstar: theior purpose is to be clear as to the intent of their design
[11:52] Arielle Popstar: so future coders understand what was intended
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the freeze part was clear enough, the end was a bit more cryptic
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: its just about non local tps
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Those were some examples of the better commit messages from Ubit. :) Sometimes you have very little idea about the commit from the message and need to look at the code change to figure it out.
[11:53] Ubit Umarov: anyone has the right to leave the region..
[11:55] Ubit Umarov: well this is the most relevant issue to discuss now?
[11:55] Arielle Popstar: heard from a coder outside of core that they managed to fix the loopback issue with 4 lines of code that registered a region with both its internal and external IP
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: We are almost at the top of the hour. Anything else for todays meeting?
[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is there a link to the code?
[11:56] Arielle Popstar: no
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Are they planning to release the changes?
[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: stinky no linky
[11:57] Arielle Popstar: i dont rightly know Andrew
[11:57] Arielle Popstar: i mention in case they dont
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: i heard pigs can fly.. but never seen one.. whatever
[11:57] Arielle Popstar: Pink floyd had one
[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and that record is hard to come by
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, if they don't knowing that someone claims to have fixed the problem won't help. We would need to know who it was that fixed it.
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Arielle, If you can contact the person ask them to make the changes available.
[11:58] Arielle Popstar: well assume it cant be too difficult as it would be in the area where there region's IP is registered
[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: are you talking about editing Regions.ini
[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as was discussed on G+?
[12:00] Arielle Popstar: no
[12:00] Arielle Popstar: apparently in the code itself
[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok, but if it is not aavailable, for all practical purposes it does not exist
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Exactly.
[12:01] Arielle Popstar: the point is it is possible
[12:01] Arielle Popstar: what prevents a region from being registered with both IP's?
[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that depends entirely on the routing setup, the number of regions and hosts etc etc
[12:02] Ubit Umarov: there is a rule.. or few..
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: no information about an internal net should get out..
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: intranet ips are that.. intranet ips
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: etc
[12:04] Arielle Popstar: assumes the registration is with the robust
[12:04] Arielle Popstar: which would be internal
[12:04] Arielle Popstar: unless on different netowrks
[12:05] Ubit Umarov: that could be improved viewer side
[12:06] Ubit Umarov: Interesting discussion ? hmm standards are low today :p
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: hehe
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I want to head out as i have some things I need to do. Any last minute item(s)?
[12:07] Arielle Popstar: loopback is extremly interesting to those who pay out monthly because they cant run at home
[12:08] Arielle Popstar: or the thousands in past who walked away from Opensim because of that bug
[12:09] Arielle Popstar: here is an issue someone just told me about too
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh. It is you, JayR that is coming up as Unknown.UserUPUUI
[12:09] Arielle Popstar: region owners can play with the attachments of other people
[12:09] Arielle Popstar: i see the same andrew
[12:09] Unknown.UserUPUUI @thekaz.ddns.net:8002: @Arielle / yes the loopback issue is a major hurdle / would be nice to know more about when it will be implemented into the code
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: very strange. Unknown user in chat but the name shows in the text above the avatar.
[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: The loopback issue is of course interesting to get fixed, but it does not help if someone sits on the solution.
[12:10] Arielle Popstar: only people it doesnt seem to matter to is core devs  :p
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: fear standalones at home will have more issues in future
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: industry never liked home servers
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: and.. fear it will get worse
[12:10] Ubit Umarov: ( loopback is already a intentional issue )
[12:11] Arielle Popstar: then developers need to code around it
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: The 4096 TP limit was thought to be too hard a bug to fix until someone finally did fix it without the amount of work it was generally thought it would take to fix.
[12:11] Arielle Popstar: exactly Andrew
[12:11] Arielle Popstar: but again fixed by outside core
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Sometimes core people have been known to think a problem was difficult to fix. Someone from outside, or with less knowledge of the code, doesn't know enough to let that stop them from trying.
[12:12] Unknown.UserUPUUI @thekaz.ddns.net:8002: lol :_)
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: I know I added a missing feature that I was told would require much more work to fix than I found it took.
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: well with that, the conclusion is that we possible we should dissolve core
[12:13] Ubit Umarov: it all outside core do it better
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: no, it just takes someone who has the itch to add/fix something.
[12:14] Arielle Popstar: not better but willing to prioritize it as an issue
[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: why don't you go, girl and dig up the 4 lines of code?
[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the discussion is idiotic
[12:14] Arielle Popstar: rather then saying "oh well sucks to be a home user"
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Core members are usually dealing with bigger issues.
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: and last time i looked you where Core. Andrews.. amasing how in meetings like this you pretend not to be
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: you always talk about the them. the core...
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: bahh
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: have fun ppl
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know the code like you and Mel do.