Chat log from the meeting on 2017-08-15

[11:03] Sheera Khan: Arielle? when you announce the meeting in Opensim Virtual could you please add the HG-URL? The sign at Wright Plaza has vanished quite some time ago ...
[11:04] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: i hadnt actually announced in ops virt for a few weeks
[11:04] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: should get back on that
[11:07] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: can you maybe prod some devs?
[11:07] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: just did
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: Hello! I've been gone for a 3 week camping trip. Anything happen while I was gone?
[11:07] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: prodding has been done
[11:09] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: IRC is all mergie mergie at the moment
[11:09] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: mergie?
[11:09] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, nothing at all.  ;)
[11:10] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Some code merges going on so the channel is polluted with messages ..
[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Kayaker, you missed a few discussions about mesh objects and physics.
[11:10] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: who is merging?
[11:11] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I agree Kayaker, but when in Rome
[11:11] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: looks like a general merge updates to some branches
[11:14] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: need to plop a meeting space in the middle of an empty region and call it done .. (maybe something that actually runs core code)
[11:14] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Hard to demo things about core code, when not on a region running it
[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: true dat
[11:15] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: we came here because Wright Plaza wasnt good for Ubit
[11:15] Sheera Khan: best in a grid running core modules and standard configuration too ...
[11:15] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I can toss a core region on one of my dedicated servers if anyone would like
[11:16] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: wright was good when Neb was coming because of having access to console
[11:17] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I can setup an account on one of my servers for just a dev region and give that access to the devs .. Not overly difficult ..
[11:17] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: connected to osgrid?
[11:17] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yes
[11:17] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I keep a full time region connected here anyway
[11:18] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, Any region that is run and maintained by the osgrid owners is running master (or close to it)
[11:18] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: as I said, I could set one up running master, I almost always run master
[11:18] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: not exactly according to Ubit but ok @ Andrew
[11:19] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Arielle, if Ubit wants to be in a region that is running the absolute latest version of master, then a special region needs to be setup. The code here is close to, or sometimes is the same as, what is in master.
[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It depends on when the people running osgrid last updated the grid.
[11:20] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Current simulator: Rev Paela OpenSim 4.0.1 Dev (Unix/Mono
[11:20] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: it has been that for quite a while
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bill, that version makes no sense. That doesn't give me any idea what version of code is being used here.
[11:21] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yep
[11:21] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: and that is an issue for discussion, that was my point
[11:21] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: @Andrew I was referencing your statement "The code here is close to, or sometimes is the same as, what is in master."
[11:21] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: it was a solution for troubles Ubit was having attending
[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Asset server is not the same (maybe the most important component of opensim) and profiles are not the same to mention two
[11:22] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: the profiles on osgrid still use open profiles, which is still acceptable to use in master
[11:22] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: They are just not using the V2 stuff
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, but that code is never updated?
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think Ubit's point is he needs a bigger configuration to flesh out bugs in master
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: OSG is too big and unpredictable
[11:24] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: i think for Ubit it needs to be a relatively light region
[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what he can run on his local machine is too small
[11:24] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: He has a Linux VM that he has access to
[11:24] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: and I know he is running some VARs on that
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, what code is never updated?
[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: many bugs only materialize in a bigger configuration and when you have users / testers doing unexpected things / use patterns
[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: version 1 profiles
[11:26] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I agree Gavin, Lab Test vs Real World
[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, are you talking about the external addon profile module vs the built-in core profile module?
[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[11:27] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: is Ubit doing any fixes on profiles?
[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: A test grid needs to use the core module both to test it for bugs and scalability
[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not some other module that happens to work
[11:27] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I maintain the external module. It gets updates now and then if there are bugs in it.
[11:27] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: << Personal opinion , not a fan of V2 , but that is just me ..
[11:28] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: There are a few outstanding issues as the result of switching to the use of PDO instead of mysql or mysqli but that's about it for the items currently on the todo list.
[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is a different matter, but core is core till it is changed
[11:28] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: V2 was with hypergrid in mind wasnt it?
[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Perhaps since HG support is part of core.
[11:29] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: Diva did it i thought
[11:30] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: LL did the origional concept together with IBM / I was in the AWG back then the first jump to OSGrid was in 2008
[11:31] Sheera Khan: Diva was quite active the last days... Is there any news about a possible release?
[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: did Diva's recent commits bring us any closer to a .9 release?
[11:31] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: :)
[11:32] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org nudges Andrew
[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Arielle, I would have to do a git blame to see who worked on that code
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Let MB fix Bulletsim now that he is at it before a release? :-)
[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, Are you going to finish that thought?
[11:34] Kayaker Magic: Mister Blue: thanks for the recent fixes!
[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: finish what?
[11:34] George Equus: " Speaking of which"
[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Gavin, you said "speaking of which". That is a statement usually followed by some thing on a topic just mentioned.
[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ...sorry I am compiling a viewer so getting a bit distracted
[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I said let MB fix Bulletsim before a release
[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and then he showed up
[11:35] Misterblue Waves: Hey Gavin, you're the one with the Mac server, aren't you?
[11:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[11:35] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: MB Should stand for Mister Bullet :)
[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I was going to ask if I should compile a new mac version for you
[11:36] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: LOL :_)
[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suppose all the changes are on the repository?
[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: AFAIR the last time we built on Xcode 4.6 which is ancient
[11:38] Misterblue Waves: not quite yet... I'm checking into opensim-libs as we type
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: OK, but I can try and compile the current version with a much more recent Xcode
[11:38] Misterblue Waves: I updated BUILD.TXT so that's the place to start
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ok
[11:40] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: Rob did any of the fixes address stair climbing?
[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I also built a new version of ODE/ubODE for macOS that is now on master
[11:43] Misterblue Waves: no, haven't touched stair climbing
[11:43] Misterblue Waves: is there a Mantis describing what is wrong, Arielle?
[11:44] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: tbh I have not specifically looked because the normal stated solution is to put in an invisible ramp
[11:44] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: but i do see that it is unnecessary with Ubode so wondered if that was posible in bullet
[11:45] Misterblue Waves: someone needs to add physical knees to the avatars so they can walk up stairs properly :)
[11:45] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: heh
[11:45] Misterblue Waves: going up stairs is a kludge in any of the physics engines because it has to simulate something rather than modeling an actual step up movement
[11:46] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: currently with bullet the stairs i try i have to approach sideways instead of straight on
[11:46] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Arille, what is the height of the steps?
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I suppose you talk about prim steps Arielle, because if you supply a proper physics model bullet stairs works fine
[11:46] Misterblue Waves: BulletSIm does it differently than ODE (tries to notice running into a low barrier and pushing the avatar up to overcome it) but it doesn't follow the LL standard
[11:47] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: i dunno Andrew as the build that has bullet on ity is currently down
[11:47] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: yes Prim castle build
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for prim steps the step height becomes an issue
[11:48] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Arielle, ok. I keep steps to a height of about 0.25m max and find I don't have much trouble with them. If you get much above 0.25m it can get iffy as to whether you can climb the stairs without an invisible ramp prim.
[11:48] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: but can go up a ramp that is steeper then the rise of the step
[11:48] Arielle.Popstar @hg.osgrid.org: so must be a function of rise and run
[11:49] Misterblue Waves: Gavin: BulletSim checked into opensim-libs
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: good
[11:49] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: With a ramp you aren't running in to a "wall" like you are with a step.
[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the directories with your code has not been touched since 2015, so I'll recompile those first and then add the new code
[11:50] Arielle Popstar: ok Andrew
[11:51] Arielle Popstar: i will have to compare bullet with Ubode for rise differences
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't pull latest opensim-libs until I squirrel away some changes in my source tree related to the LSL parser.
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: :P
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: We've almost reached the top of the hour. Any other topics for today?
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: oh, just a small one for the wiki
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I happened to look at the load oar page
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is fine, BUT there is no link to save oar
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: actually I am not even sure if there is a save oar page, but only mentioned in server console commands
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Good point, Gavin. I'm not finding a save oar page.
[11:54] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/OpenSim_Archives
[11:54] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: it is there
[11:55] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: most of it
[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: OK, but it would be good to have a link from load oar to where the corresponding save oar can be found
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: The page that links to load oar should also include the link to the OpenSim archives page.
[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: anyone on mono 5.2 yet?
[11:57] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: Mono 4.x for me
[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I tried a standalone on 5.2 recompiled with it today, but it crashed in a spectacular manner
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm still using 3.2.8 on my home machine.
[11:58] JayR.Cela @grid.3rdrockgrid.com:8002: :_))))
[11:58] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I use mono mono 5.2 on most of my grid, and 5.4 or testing sims
[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I think the crash had to do with loading scripts not recompiled, so I'll try again
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Is mono 5 "stable"? Things would break from one 4.x version to the next.
[12:00] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Mono 5.2 is release
[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Microsoft released VS with support for it yesterday
[12:00] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: my grid is pretty stable, and I abuse things
[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Mac and Win versions
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I didn't mean stable as in release. I was hoping they haven't fixed one thing and broken something else like kept happening in the 4 series.
[12:01] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Nothing "new" seems broken, let's put it that way
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: We had to avoid using some versions in the 4.x series.
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, ok. good.
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have added a lot of MS code, so that is probably going to break things, hehe
[12:01] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I know it does not play well with older versions of nunit
[12:02] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I should say , OOOOOOLLLDDDD versions of nunit ..
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, how old?
[12:03] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: like the version on the core jenkins ... LOL
[12:03] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: :P
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:03] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Ask Diva about that
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I know i have nunit 2.6
[12:04] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: ran into the issue yesterday
[12:04] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: newer VS code blew up on the old nunit tests
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't even find a package called nunit installed on the os.org machine.
[12:04] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I ran the same build that the Core jenkins would fail, on mine with newer mono and nunit and the tests completed without failing
[12:05] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: nunit-console2 ?
[12:05] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when compiling master with 4.x it spews out about 280 warnings, but on 5.2 only 110
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, interesting.
[12:06] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I get 19 errors
[12:06] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is impressive :-)
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I found no installed packages containing nunit in their name.
[12:07] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: my not be a package
[12:07] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: may be manual install
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: Hm... I see nunit20 mentioned in a directory under jenkins.
[12:08] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: how's this ..
[12:08] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: BUILD SUCCEEDED - 0 non-fatal error(s), 2 warning(s)

Total time: 0.4 seconds.


BUILD SUCCEEDED

Total time: 48 second
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Is that the output from building OpenSim?
[12:08] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: yep
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: What version of mono are you using?
[12:09] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: 5.2
[12:09] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: hang on get you the exact
[12:09] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: Mono JIT compiler version 5.2.0.209
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I have mono checked out on my machine. I'll have to checkout 5.2 and give it a try.
[12:10] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: that build info may have been incorrect .. forgot to clean first
[12:10] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: nope
[12:10] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: same thing
[12:11] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I have my own jenkins and view git , if you want to look at it sometime, drop me an IM
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I can't find a 5.x branch in the mono source tree.
[12:12] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: http://www.mono-project.com/download/#download-lin
[12:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Any other last minute topics or do we call it quits for today?
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, I just updated my source tree from git.
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I see 5.4-bump and 5.7 branch.
[12:14] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: I think the master branch is now 5.2
[12:14] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: as it is in release status
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. Interesting that they don't appear to have created a 5.0 branch.
[12:15] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: maybe they pruned the older branches when they went release .. (there were issue with the 5.0 and 5.1)\
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: ah, ok.
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll build master and see what version i get.
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: If there is nothing else for today we can stick a fork in it and call it done.
[12:19] Bill.Blight @grid.opensim.life:8002: sooo did you just tell us to Fork Off?
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Bill, not quite. I'm using a cooking reference. :).