Chat log from the meeting on 2017-03-14

[10:59] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Hm... time change throwing people off?
[11:02] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Developing website of interest: http://www.thevww.com/
[11:04] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If we don't get some others showing up soon we might as well skip todays meeting. I think we are in that two week period where the clocks change in North America but not in parts of Europe.
[11:05] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I've hardly had any time at my computer the last week or so due to family issues.
[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Selby, did you have anything you wanted to discuss today?
[11:10] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm thinking of waiting another 5 minutes or so before calling this meeting quits.
[11:10] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Thanks -- No I am just an observer.
[11:11] Jim Jackson: I have a question if you don't mind
[11:11] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Sure. Go ahead.
[11:12] Jim Jackson: I am not a tech person per se, but is there an easy way to only allow a few select grids onto my regions here in OSgrid?
[11:13] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Intersting question.
[11:14] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I guess you can allow selected people by group acccess, but can you allow by attribute?
[11:14] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: My first thought was a firewall. I don't often look at the configuration files used to enable HG support in a grid. I would have to look at them to see if there is a way to filter who can enter your region based on their origin.
[11:15] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm not sure a filter would help that much. People could just HG TP to a grid from which you will accept visitors before doing an HG TP to your region in osgrid.
[11:16] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Selby, yes, you could set a region for group access.
[11:17] Jim Jackson: the reason I ask, is the proliferation of grids with currency. I have found a few of my free items being sold on grids with currency, its very annoying. it seems like a lot of focus has been on protecting creators rights on grids where they can be sold, but not necessarily the other way around
[11:20] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have seen that happen in SL for years. I really hated it, though it was not my stuff.
[11:20] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I have heard of people selling freebies from other grids. The items might have been copybotted or they could have carried the freebie item to a region they own where they could override the perms on it.
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It sucks when it happens. You can register a complaint against the seller with the grid owner.
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Have them remove the item
[11:22] Jim Jackson: well I have had buildings I made copybotted... they were never copy or transfer, but have found them on pay grids... on other grids my free items are attached to a local residents prim and sold as their creation
[11:23] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org ndos
[11:23] Jim Jackson: yeah filing a DMCA with a grid where the owner is the person who is selling your item doesn't work
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If a grid owner is involved in that type of activity it doesn't say good things about the grid. More like a grid one should avoid.
[11:26] Jim Jackson: well there are a number of them out there and thats why I was hoping there was a way to whitelist grids that I like or trust rather than only allowing residents of OSgrid
[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Unfortunately, I don't see a setting for that in the ini files.
[11:31] Jim Jackson: I know you guys are busy and probably understaffed but maybe something to think about... honest creators rights are being stomped on and there is really no defense available other than not sharing any more, which is great for the pay grids
[11:33] Jim Jackson: nothing against pay grids and people making a buck, but its not fair people make money from others hard work and don't respect the right of the creator or the intention of the creation
[11:33] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I tried the other way around -- telling people to check what is available for free so they don't get scammed. But it is hard to get the word out.
[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I can discuss it with the other core devs. Off the top of my head I'm not sure there is anything that could be put in the code to stop it from happening. It would be too easy to bypass. Your best option may be publicity.
[11:35] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Let the world know of grids where owners are involved in selling freebies. You could mention it in their grid forums or get it mentioned on Hypergrid Business website.
[11:35] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have some articles for newcomer advice -- I will see if there are places I could put it.
[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Posting comments in group chat will reach some of the people in a grid but not all.
[11:36] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I could run an article about specific items that are free and for sale
[11:37] Jim Jackson: there are so many grids popping up with currency... nobody is there to police them.. some are honest and some are not... I don't have time to constantly go around to them all and try to discern what is what any more.... it was never a problem before currency modules lol
[11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If you have a grid owner show is told they are selling freebies and they don't do anything about it you have to wonder what else they are up to behind the scenes.
[11:37] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: hm... I just had another thought.
[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If the grid is using a common currency run by a third party (ie. Podex, or Vivox) talk with the people who run the currency system about it.
[11:38] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Jim -- would you like to give me a list of items that you offer free and others are selling?
[11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I would suggest Jim mention in open chat information about freebies being sold so others who read the meeting log on line will be made aware of what issues to avoid buying.
[11:40] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: We could do an article that promotes your free stuff and tells about the chance of being scammed.
[11:41] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: You could also mention the scam items in Opensim Virtual
[11:42] Jim Jackson: I really think it needs to somehow be dealt with at the root... I am not the only one this has happened to. At the moment I really don't want any more publicity, our regions get enough traffic as it is.
[11:44] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: The issue in general needs publicity if you don't want your region or items to be specifically mentioned. I would want to know of grids where this happens where the grid owners don't do anything to fix the problem and/or are the ones selling freebies.
[11:45] Jim Jackson: that won't stop them, some grid owners are known prolific copybotters. even if you shamed them out of business, they will open another grid under another name
[11:46] Andrew Hellershanks: If people know a grid owner is involved people may start avoiding the grid which, if lucky, would lead ultimately to the grid being shutdown for lack of users.
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: yes, it can become a never ending problem. You could get the names of the grid owners out there. That only helps a little bit as they can always start a grid using different names.
[11:49] Jim Jackson: well I have already been attacked publicly by one grid owner, it gets old real fast, now that I am an admin here I don't want to start grid wars, I just would like a better way to protect ourselves
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: One other option is to publicize that people can get the items for free and tell them where/how. If you could make the where some place in the grid where the items are also being sold you make it easy for them to get the items for free instead of paying bad grid owners.
[11:51] Jim Jackson: well then that means creating an account on the shady grid and going there and giving the bad grid traffic and publicity
[11:53] Jim Jackson: then by uploading the items to that grid... yu ultimately just gave the shady grid owner your items
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, you don't want to do that. Would have to limit it to a sign with HG TP in it that will tell them they are being scammed if they buy items available for free elsewhere, and include a TP to a good grid with the freebie.
[11:54] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.1.0 Dev 056ccae: 2017-01-27 21:43:25 +0000 (Unix/Mono)
[11:54] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I am setting up a draft article on "How to get scammed in open sim.
[11:55] Jim Jackson: anyways, I have spoken my peace, I know there is no easy solution, maybe the devs can come up with something
[11:56] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: And near quitting time. bye all
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Jim, I have posted the question on the IRC channel used by the core developers.
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: wow. Here I thought we might have had a short meeting today with so few people here.
[11:57] Jim Jackson: ty andrew
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: It may be another week before clocks in other parts of the world change.
[11:58] Jim Jackson: ahh yeah I hate daylight savings lol
[11:58] Jim Jackson: leave the clocks alone
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Jim, yw. Sorry to hear of your troubles. It sucks that there are people out there that try to make money off the backs of others like that.
[11:58] Jim Jackson: well its inevitable, where there is money there is greed
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Jim, yeah it would be better to do that. Where I am the times for when the clocks change has been reduced so we are in that "other time" for fewer months.
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Jim, right.
[11:59] Jim Jackson: well thanks for your time, I have to be going too
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Jim, are any grids where this happens using third party currency systems?
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: yes, I'm going to get going in a minute myself. I really will get back to work on the documentation I've been trying to do for the last couple of weeks.
[12:00] Jim Jackson: you know, I haven't even checked lately, I would assume so
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Jim, check. If they are I would try talking with the currency provider and see if they are willing to do something. If you can block the grids use of the currency system that will make it hard for the grids to keep doing what they have been doing.
[12:03] Jim Jackson: I gave up going to pay grids... some are rather disgusting and I don't give them my traffic... and like I said, I am not here to start grid wars, rather I would like to see us protected at the root of the problem rather than have to teleport to hundreds of grids and thousands of stores trying to police the metaverse... I don't have time for that
[12:04] Jak Daniels: Hi all. Have I missed it?
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: You have, Jak.
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Clocks changed in North America this past weekend.
[12:04] Jak Daniels: I thought the meeting time was linked to UTC?
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: Check the corner of the viewer screen
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: No, it isn't.
[12:05] Jim Jackson: good seeing you, take care
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, tc Jim
[12:05] Jak Daniels: it says in the wiki 7pm UTC.... oh well
[12:05] Jak Daniels: How are we supposed to know when the clocks change in North America.... everywhere is different
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: oh. Perhaps that should be changed. AFAIK, it has always been at 11am grid time.
[12:06] Jak Daniels: I'm UK.... clocks don't change for another 2 weeks yet
[12:06] Jak Daniels: that's why UTC was sensible.... it doesn't change ;)
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: yeah, this happens about this time of year. Takes a couple of weeks before everyone gets back in sync.
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: True, but a lot of people wouldn't know how to convert from local time to UTC and back.
[12:08] Jak Daniels: is DST change the same date across all of U.S.?
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: No idea. You would have to ask someone that lives there.
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I would think so.
[12:10] Jak Daniels: heh.... lol it's a mess. OK, well greetings to all.... I'll try and be an hour earlier next week!
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: I know in parts of Canada they don't change the clocks.
[12:10] Jak Daniels: yeah the effects of DST are more pronounced closer to the equator... the nights are later further north anyway
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Jak, look on the bright side. You have an hour you can spend doing something else other than sitting here. :)
[12:11] Jak Daniels: lol.... ok yes... make it a positive. Thanks Andrew :)#
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Just trying to help. :)