Chat log from the meeting on 2016-07-19

[11:07] Ogeywon Stromfield: im just siting in to see what i missed this last month i have been away
[11:08] Jak Daniels: hmmm.... two people here are missing from radar and have no names above them, only group name
[11:08] Jak Daniels: ubit and vegaslon
[11:09] Jak Daniels: now they just appeared.... strange
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: minimap as slower update rate
[11:10] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev 9b4e83c: 2016-07-17 16:21:37 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:10] Jak Daniels: does that affect tags and radar too?
[11:10] Ubit Umarov: yeap that is radar
[11:11] Jak Daniels: ok
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, Are any of the Kokua viewer devs testing it under Linux with a desktop running with multiple workspaces? I often get a viewer crash when switching between workspace.
[11:11] Ubit Umarov: ( err not the tags above our heads)
[11:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't know what Nicky does
[11:11] Jak Daniels: they were affected as well
[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL last TPV developer meeting was interesting
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, ok. I'll track down the crash logs of the viewer one day and see what it say.
[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they basically say they cannot put any more effort into a Linux version of the viewer
[11:12] Ubit Umarov: ll said that long ago i think
[11:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: + they will replace voice with a completely new version that is not compatible with Linux
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: oh that is clever :)
[11:13] Jak Daniels: more proprietary voice codecs then possibly?
[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it sounds like Virvox will block any viewer that does not use the new client version
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... Why have they decided to cut off Linux users?
[11:13] Ubit Umarov: guess linux is fading out for corporations
[11:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: too much effort
[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so this may affect all OpenSim version of vivox too
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Are they going to drop support for Mac users as well?
[11:14] Ubit Umarov: linux failed to get a market share on desktops etc
[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: nope
[11:14] Ogeywon Stromfield: i was thinking of moving all my grids to Linux now not so much
[11:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Mac users are about 15 % or their user base, developers are 25% Mac users. Linux is less than 1%
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Gavin, Not all that much difference between Mac and Linux in terms of code as OS X is a *nix type OS.
[11:14] Jak Daniels: where your grid is hosted will not make a difference
[11:15] Ubit Umarov: Oge servers side is another issue
[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: very much difference
[11:15] Ogeywon Stromfield: ok
[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: app proper applications on MacOS is coded in Objective-C or now Swift
[11:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the C++ portion of the viewer code is a BIG inhibitor to make a proper version for the Mac viewer
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: ( but seems mono is getting worse on linux also ?? )
[11:16] Andrew Hellershanks: Oh? They think Linux support is too much work but have changed to a different programming langugage for viewer development??
[11:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: ... which is why all the Mac viewers use frameworks that Apple deprecated 6 major operating system versions ago
[11:16] Ubit Umarov: they changed the language??
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: the can't do that on secondlife viewers
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: only on the new thing possible..
[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a Mac viewer will have to be rewritten in Obj-C and/or Swift
[11:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but then it can also be compiled for the iPad at least
[11:17] Ubit Umarov: c++ is not excuse at all
[11:18] Ubit Umarov: everything is c++ under the hood
[11:18] George Equus: Vivox keeps crashing on my Win 8 system with latest FS 64bit. Began 6 months ago or so, out of the blue.
[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL and Vivox will bring out a completely new version of the code
[11:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have suggested it might run on Wine on Linux
[11:19] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: time for Mumble/Murmur for OpenSim?
[11:19] Jak Daniels: is that due to the different underlying audio APIs for win, mac and linux? (with the linux one never really stable)
[11:20] Ubit Umarov: uff how silly all those distros actually killed linux for normal users
[11:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I would not think the APIs is too much of an issue
[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: probably ROI - vivox is a commercial company after all
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: So LL finds yet another way to alienate some of their users and drive them away.
[11:21] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: its not apis,,, or language .. is plain market share gavin.Hird
[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you could say that :-)
[11:21] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no market why spent time coding for it ?
[11:21] Sheera Khan: well, I'm using Linux since about 1996 and I've never had bad problems with sound in VW in the past 7 years ...
[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: :-(
[11:21] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for sansar there will only be a Windows client
[11:21] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: With that attitude I won't expect to see any Linux support for their new grid system.
[11:22] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so I am not sure what they are on to
[11:22] Sheera Khan: too bad for Sansar ...
[11:22] Unknown UserUMMAU42: but the linux audio subsystem keeps changing over time, there's no real standard
[11:22] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: old phil was the opensource guy at sl... guess all left now
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Sansar is all closed source
[11:23] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so tpvs will be out of the game also :)
[11:23] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so it is all very fluid right now
[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no TPV for Sansar
[11:24] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: mb we get a bit more of their attention then ? :)
[11:24] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I wonder what this may mean for TPVs for use with OpenSim.
[11:24] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: TPV attention?
[11:25] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ll still keeps the lie that SL will go for ever ?
[11:25] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Viewer devs already have to deal with differences between SL and OS. if that divide gets a lot wider the developers of a viewer may have to decide which system they want to continue to support.
[11:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: My thinking is that once Sansar gets to 1.0 SL will be closed
[11:26] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeah i think that also
[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods
[11:26] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: but till then they need to keep the lie on
[11:26] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It would make sense. Why would they want to continue supporting SL once they have Sansar.
[11:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you got that right Ubit
[11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: sure they will have a migration scheme i guess
[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no migration scheme
[11:27] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: nahh if they are good, they will have one
[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no content can be moved
[11:27] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: only your name and purse
[11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: they can't loose the clients
[11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: at not all of them
[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they want to loose the client
[11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: at least not all
[11:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: LL basically hates their userbase
[11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: they do?
[11:28] Sheera Khan: hihihi - and vice versa so it seems at times ^^
[11:28] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well they are paying it all :)
[11:29] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: They can have Sansar and not have to worry about users at all if they are going to ill treat everyone.
[11:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they are longing to get rid of the smut, the child avatars, the entitlement, all the fuzz
[11:29] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so i think they will have some kind limited or not migration
[11:29] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( so money keeps getting in )
[11:30] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I wonder what Sansar will use for scripting
[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as I understand it Sansar will be a platform for others to make canned experiences
[11:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: C#
[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It will have to be locked down a bit so as to avoid possible security issues.
[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: from the last Ebbe briefing there will not be any user created content
[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: What?
[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: everything will have to be created outside and uploaded
[11:31] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: oh, you mean no inworld created content.
[11:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so no in-world created content
[11:32] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: That's ok as long as they aren't going to force people to need Maya.
[11:32] Ogeywon.Stromfield @hg.osgrid.org: whats the point of Sansar then
[11:32] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: in-world creation is a big performance issue
[11:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Maya is the reference platform
[11:32] Unknown UserUMMAU42: build tools just limited to placing and moving content around then?
[11:32] vegaslon.plutonian @hg.osgrid.org: Guessing it will be something like create a level for a game. You upload it to the server and the users download it as they come in.
[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: from what he said initially even moving stuff would be difficult
[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but would eventually get there
[11:33] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: If Maya is the reference platform who are they expecting to build anything for it? That is a *very* expensive program.
[11:33] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeap precooked and optimized content as on a game level
[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[11:33] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: Andrew they only want pros
[11:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the good thing is of course that openSim could see a lot of refugees
[11:34] Unknown UserUMMAU42: oh, so a 'space' has to built in its entirety and upload as one mesh then?
[11:34] vegaslon.plutonian @hg.osgrid.org: no it can be multiple meshes
[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, Jak
[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Why would "pros" bother with it. If they have that type of program they would have better things to do with it.
[11:34] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: normal ppl make bad unoptimized things that impact negatively on the product
[11:34] vegaslon.plutonian @hg.osgrid.org: would be a bunch of meshes and texture and then a level file
[11:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: TBH , I am not sure what the business model is for them
[11:34] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: people also made bad mesh objects.
[11:35] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: tell me about it :p
[11:35] vegaslon.plutonian @hg.osgrid.org: I bet they will have a entire experience vertex limit.
[11:36] Unknown UserUMMAU42: and possibly a texture limit too
[11:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you desining for the Rift, you must be on a tight budget
[11:36] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I could toss a 6Meg Millennium Falcon model at them and see how they handle it.
[11:36] vegaslon.plutonian @hg.osgrid.org: or just a entire level package file size limit
[11:36] Ogeywon.Stromfield @hg.osgrid.org: :)
[11:36] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it they want more than 60fps full 3D they can't have non optimized content
[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the Rift needs 90
[11:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to avoid motion sickness
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it will be interesting to see if there is any market at all for it
[11:38] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Bottom line is that all the things LL is doing may wind up giving OpenSim based grids a boost when people leave SL.
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: content compatibility
[11:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: same concept
[11:39] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org nods
[11:39] Ogeywon.Stromfield @hg.osgrid.org: can OSG handle that many
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: NO
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: not in one instance
[11:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: maybe a 1000 connected grids
[11:39] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: how many users SL actually has now?
[11:40] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: It will free the OpenSim and TPV developers to change things at both ends to make changes and add features without having to worry about compatibility with some other system.
[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: concurrency on SL is between 17k and 55k at any time of the day
[11:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they have about 950k active users
[11:41] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: To bring things back to OpenSim for a bit perhaps Ubit can give us an update on how the inventory issue he was working on this past week.
[11:42] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: Ubit, how did the testing go on the changes you were making?
[11:42] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well i was messing up http ..
[11:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: hehe
[11:42] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: :)
[11:42] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: only did a few minor changes on inventory... cleanup basicly
[11:43] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and region side
[11:43] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: From what I saw of the development and testing you were doing, you have improved (ie. reduced) the loading time for inventory?
[11:43] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: what i see on inv its a pain slow osg response
[11:44] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: is that specific to OSG?
[11:44] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: there was a code change that made no sense in win.. but may mean something on mono
[11:45] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: seems it did speed up it a bit on linux regions..
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am on the change before c9bd6f
[11:46] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: i'm only testing here at osg
[11:46] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: I'm only running regions in Linux when using my standalone
[11:46] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it is loading inventory slower
[11:46] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: tons of slow requests  :)
[11:47] Sheera Khan: yes I see those too
[11:47] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can see it on initial login that the built in AO fails to initialize, and the avatar looks like threading water
[11:48] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: avatar likes to have the COF now
[11:48] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: COF = ?
[11:48] Andrew.Hellershanks @hg.osgrid.org: COF?
[11:48] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: current outfit
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yep
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and I am pretty sure Diva did some changes in 0.8.2 to speed that up
[11:49] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: those are on 0.9
[11:49] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: after she made some radical changes to inventory loading
[11:50] George.Equus @hg.osgrid.org: I have tons of slow requests as well...
[11:50] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the most current version is slower than a week ago
[11:50] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: they are on 0.9... get multiples things on each request to grid
[11:51] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: before is was a folish one at a time request
[11:52] Sheera Khan: HTTP should ease that as you can make a persistant connection like it is in a webserver
[11:52] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: so each viewer request now means one or 2 to the grid and not tons
[11:52] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: most grids don't serve content over http
[11:53] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: no there is a limit on how many connections a server ( grid for example) can have
[11:53] Sheera Khan: yes but since LL is switching to http I guess we have to follow suit in near future ...
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the more I think about it, the more I think that serving content from a single point over http is a disaster for a distributed grid like OSG
[11:53] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: opensim does grid requests using http
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in many cases you have to drag the content half around the world
[11:53] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: from the asset server
[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: while most users will be local to the region server they are on
[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: mening the delivery path is much shorter
[11:54] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: well at least assest are cached on a region
[11:54] Sheera Khan: that's where the region caches should be helpful
[11:54] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: ( not inventory for obvius reasons :) )
[11:54] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the region cache does not serve anything http
[11:55] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it doesn't ?
[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I don't think so
[11:55] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: of course it does
[11:55] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: why is that of course
[11:55] Sheera Khan: oh?
[11:55] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: if you ask for a mesh or text, it cames from the local cache
[11:55] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: if there of course
[11:55] Sheera Khan: we were told different last time
[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the viewer will load content from the inventory caps url
[11:56] Sheera Khan: at least as far as I got it ...
[11:56] vegaslon.plutonian @hg.osgrid.org: you can setup a region to request directly to the asset server but that was only done for the oscc regions
[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if that is a http url, it will go back to the asset server
[11:56] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: path checks: viewer cache - region cache... grid assets
[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: some will be cached from the viewer cache
[11:56] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but not the region cache
[11:57] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am reasonably sure this path is for UDP only path checks: viewer cache - region cache... grid assets
[11:58] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: http also
[11:58] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it's on the region assets find code.. doesn't matter if udp or http
[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what is the http address of the region cache?
[11:58] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: what http address ?
[11:58] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: to get the content from the local region cache
[11:59] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: there is no address
[11:59] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: when you ask for a mesh, region tries to get it from the cache, before asking to grid
[11:59] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so the viewer with http content goes to viewer cache, then to http asset server
[12:00] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: viewer should not go to asset server, but to region.. that is the normal thing
[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is one of the big changes in the viewer code that LL has implemented
[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is in all FS and latest Kokua
[12:00] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: that is not used on opensim ( unless you change some options )
[12:00] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Alchemy too
[12:01] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: nopes.. in normal configurations assets came from the region
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when the viewer is told via caps that inventory is served via localhost, your path is correct
[12:01] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that was how it used to work always
[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: when the viewer get a http address for inventory it does not query the region server
[12:02] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: if you change that you loose the region cache and only stress grid
[12:02] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is the resopn why OSGrid is so slow
[12:02] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: not sure it's a good option for normal grids.. but well..
[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: because as more and more viewer go directly to the http asset server
[12:03] Unknown UserUMMAU42: It makes sense for LL I guess - moving load off the region servers onto a mega asset server CDN
[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it increase the load on it
[12:03] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: default is using localhost
[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: default is using localhost
[12:03] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: yeap it does at sl
[12:03] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but you cannot serve http content via localhost
[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you set a http address in Robust
[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that the viewer will query
[12:04] Sheera Khan: which setting do we talk about exactly? Is it in OpenSim.ini of the region?
[12:04] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: lemme check
[12:05] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: on robust you need to tell the access points for regions, eventualy viewers..
[12:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: imo with current robust, viewers should stay out of grid.. but never actually tested
[12:06] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: it is a none sense..
[12:07] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: using regions means a load distribution
[12:08] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: SL has a akamay or whatver the name cache near everyone
[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in OpenSim,ini
[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you have 2 settings
[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Cap_GetTexture = "http://assets.xmir.org:8010/CAPS/GetTexture/"
 ; Cap_GetTexture = "localhost"
Cap_GetMesh = "localhost"
[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if these two are set to a http address and not localhost
[12:08] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it will always go to that address to get any content
[12:09] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: that was your choice
[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if set to localhost, the old mechanisms will work
[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: and it will be served via the region cachem
[12:09] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: "old" ? whatever
[12:09] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes old
[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: remember there has been a massive change in viewer behavior over the last year
[12:10] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as everyone has scrambled to implement LLs http code
[12:10] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev 9b4e83c: 2016-07-17 16:21:37 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[12:10] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: that made sense if you do have a big professional http service grid side
[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: in that code does not get anything from the region server
[12:11] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they will turn the old behavior off in their infrastructure in early Q4
[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so when the viewer sees on OSGrid a http address for textures and mesh in the caps, it goes to the OSG asset server for eveything
[12:12] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: viewers handle both now
[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: viewer default to http
[12:12] Unknown UserUMMAU42: is that how OSG is currently setup?
[12:12] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: now
[12:12] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and will need to keep doing that to work on opensim
[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is why we have split the Kokua code to keep it so
[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but the LL viewers will only use http
[12:13] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: http? what a mess
[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes
[12:13] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: we are not talking about udp versus http
[12:13] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: they will turn off UDP in 4Q
[12:13] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: we are talking about http
[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all content served from the region host is UDP in OpenSim
[12:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and if http uses region or goes directly to grid
[12:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: and i'm telling you that by default it uses region
[12:14] Unknown UserUMMAU42: is that fixed in the viewer when the CAP is localhost?
[12:14] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes it is
[12:14] Ubit.Umarov @hg.osgrid.org: if you change that.. that is your thing
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: may be better... most likely NOT
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: unless you have special needs or something a lot better than Robust
[12:15] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the lastet viewers have http set for all content as default
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: WHO IS TALKING ABOUT UDP ??
[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I am
[12:16] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the viewer does not get any content from the region host (cache) unless over UDP
[12:17] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if the viewer is set to load textures and content over http, it goes directly to the asset server
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: you are wrong and i don't want to waste more time on this anymore
[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: no I am not
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: use the default config and see
[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: what default config
[12:18] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the viewer defaultconfig is now http
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: I need to get going. If you want to keep the meeting going a bit longer, please do so. Sheera is still logging the meeting.
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: ...
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: Cap_GetTexture = "localhost"
Cap_GetMesh = "localhost"
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: ...
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: don't mess with that unless you understand what you're doing..
[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes, that is the OpenSim default
[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: but
[12:20] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: OSgrid does not run like that
[12:23] Jak Daniels: I have Cap_GetMesh = "localhost" and Cap_GetTexture = "localhost" in my Opensim.ini s on my OSG regions
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: that is the normal default, that osg also uses
[12:25] Ubit Umarov: see http://download.osgrid.org/OpenSim.ini.txt
[12:25] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: has that been changed for 0.9
[12:26] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: as the default for OSgrid?
[12:26] Ubit Umarov: i don't make the osg configs... ask dan
[12:27] Ubit Umarov: just dont remember osg ever having other option on that
[12:27] Jak Daniels: they're set to localhost in the current opensim.ini version downloadable from OSG
[12:27] Ubit Umarov: bc doesn't make much sense with robust
[12:27] Ubit Umarov: it is not a very fast http server
[12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Direct_Service_Requests
[12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: a lot of people changed after JustinCC write this
[12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: so that rather than localhost, they configured the caps with http
[12:28] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: going directly to the asset server
[12:28] Tannoy OSgrider: without all set in viewer to http inventory never loaded at SL or here for me
[12:29] Ubit Umarov: yes that option is avaiable
[12:29] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: SL will not load without http set
[12:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it still will to a certain extent
[12:30] Ubit Umarov: i'm not speaking about udp... only http... udp still works in opensim
[12:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes Ubit, but the UDP support is being removed in the code base
[12:30] vegaslon plutonian: just looked at a osgrid region.ini from 2013 and it was set localhost then too.
[12:30] Ubit Umarov: and some viewers to backoff to udp if http fails
[12:30] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: which is why we have split Kokua so we can preserve UDP support
[12:31] Ubit Umarov: but that is another issue :)
[12:31] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: the SL version of Kokua will not have UDP support
[12:31] Ubit Umarov: well we do suport http now
[12:31] Ubit Umarov: ( udp js just a safe thing to keep when we mess up http ;) )
[12:32] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if you try to use the LL http code to access OpenSim grids, the viewer crash pretty fast after initial login
[12:32] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: and that is HTTP to the region cache as I get it?
[12:32] Ubit Umarov: regions try to cache things..
[12:32] Ubit Umarov: ( exception is inventory )
[12:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if the viewer gets localhost in the caps it uses UDP
[12:33] Ubit Umarov: MAN that option is for the region!!
[12:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: also the viewer
[12:33] Ubit Umarov: well whatever
[12:33] Jak Daniels: Does the viewer use http if http_pipeling debug setting is on and the CAP is localhost?
[12:33] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: that is how the viewers behave
[12:34] Ubit Umarov: i've it localhost in my viewers use http...
[12:34] Ubit Umarov: if yours don't.. don't know
[12:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if it sees localhost in the caps, all communication with the region host is via UDP
[12:34] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: for inventory
[12:34] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: and assets?
[12:34] Jak Daniels: in my prefs there is tick box for use http for textures and inventory
[12:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: assets = inventory
[12:35] Jak Daniels: does that work with localhost CAP?
[12:35] Ubit Umarov: assets != inventory
[12:35] Tannoy OSgrider: so viewer doesn't respect settings for localhost?
[12:35] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: it can't
[12:36] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: there is no functionality to get assets from localhost via http
[12:37] Ubit Umarov: guess FS and singu have a problem them.. bc they work fine :)
[12:37] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Ubit what is the http address of asset server served via localhost?
[12:37] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002:there is a http server in our region servers.... wouldn't the viewer just need an URL to that to get the desired assets from the region cache?
[12:38] Ubit Umarov: if you set that option to localhost, viewer is told to get assets from the region
[12:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: yes via UDP
[12:38] Ubit Umarov: http
[12:38] vegaslon plutonian: http address would be something like "yourserverip:9000"
[12:38] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: UDP
[12:39] Ubit Umarov: well i've no more time to waste on this
[12:39] Jak Daniels: surely 'localhost' is just a placeholder name to mean local cache then region server... can the viewer not use the same type of call over http that it does to a grid asset server, but to the region server?
[12:39] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: Jak there is no functionality in the viewer for that
[12:39] Ubit Umarov: on that opensim code is working as it suposed to..
[12:40] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: if the viewer will get the caps served to localhost, it will switch to UDP
[12:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: all viewers since day one do that
[12:41] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: well, but that could be changed now we know the region is capable of working with http, isn't it?
[12:41] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: then you set the caps to a wellformed http address
[12:41] Ubit Umarov: as i said ...
[12:42] Ubit Umarov: [12:38] Ubit Umarov: if you set that option to localhost, viewer is told to get assets from the region
[12:42] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: just theoretically: if I set that cap_-string to a wellformed URL it should work?
[12:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: you can try it
[12:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: I never got it work
[12:42] Ubit Umarov: rl calls
[12:42] Ubit Umarov: have fun :)
[12:42] Gavin.Hird @grid.xmir.org:8002: unless it is set up like in that article I linked to
[12:44] Jak Daniels: so something like http://regionserverip:9000/CAPS/GetTexture/ ?
[12:44] Jak Daniels: or is that endpoint only served by robust?
[12:45] vegaslon plutonian: or something like http://localhost/?texture_id=00000000-0000-1111-9999-000000000012
[12:46] vegaslon plutonian: localhost turning into serverip:9000 on most cases
[12:47] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: well we would know if the server and viewer developers understood each other better ...
[12:47] Jak Daniels: oh well, I guess I'm gonna stay confused about all that. Don't know who to believe now lol...
[12:49] Jak Daniels: but at least they're talking to one another....:)