Chat log from the meeting on 2016-02-09

[10:59] Smuth Mirza smiles.. :meanwhile my rezzing caused me growing roots here
[10:59] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: lol Smooth
[10:59] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: as no leaves are growing out of you, its all ok lol
[11:00] Smuth Mirza: hehe
[11:00] Smuth Mirza: can I get here some AO or at least something better than a broom pose ?
[11:01] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: hmm in the higher building with the helicopter landing on the roof, there should be AOs
[11:01] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: I saw the other day some animations
[11:02] Smuth Mirza: TY !1 ..I hope I then can start wiping too :-)
[11:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: wiping ?
[11:06] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: due to a silly experiment, everyone here appears as unknown.. need to relog brb
[11:07] Kayaker Magic: I'm not fashonably late yet?
[11:10] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: hello all, had to go quick back home :)
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: Hello. NOthing happening here yet....
[11:10] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: Kayaker, the King of Dinos hehe
[11:11] Kayaker Magic: HAHA! Glad to hear everyone is hearing about those!
[11:11] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: lol I was in Kitely at the WIP show
[11:11] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: and I read about them in G+
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Busy with other things, Richardus.
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: not really. try to keep busy
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm rewriting most of the scripts for a train system.
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: WHere short digging on my vps. that thing got slow last dayts. still waiting for reply because it worked good for lonmg time
[11:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha
[11:15] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: also the opensim auto backup function is mabye not so good. lot's of red errors today. hmm log
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i see duplicate key errors
[11:16] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev        367b7d7: 2016-01-31 03:08:24 +0100 (Unix/Mono)
[11:19] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why is opensim not splitting the logs in small ones. tsjee 128MB for feb.
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, The backup command should just make sure prims are saved in the database, AFAIK. It shouldn't result in duplicate key messages.
[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: like i say vps is slow too last few days
[11:21] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon is on his way
[11:21] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: back I had something to do in IM
[11:21] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: ah nice
[11:22] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: there he is
[11:22] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: as soon i get the log on my disk i can paste mabye a part
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: 128MB is a "small" log file.
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: hello all sorry I am late, totally spaced out working in blender
[11:23] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hehe, blender can be a black hole yes. once in you not get out
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Easy to get carried away in that program.
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: :)
[11:23] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: lol I wish I could say that Nebadon, get spaced in blender, I get brain-smoked when I try blender hehe
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: how is everyone doing otherwise?
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: haha ya
[11:24] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: or smoky-brain better said
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: took a long while to learn it, im still learning
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm doing ok. My cat, not so much.
[11:24] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Anyone know why bin/lib64/libode-x86_64.so Bin 1106911 -> 6397607 byte there is a 5 fold increase.. just curious
[11:24] Andrew Hellershanks: You never stop learning blender. They keep adding features to it.
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: probably beaause it was compiled on windows vs linux
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: or in debug mode vs release
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: one of those two
[11:25] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: I got a questions too, will wait for the right moment to ask :)
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: ask away :)
[11:25] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: ty
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: The right time is any time another topic isn't being discussed.
[11:26] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: its under which category must I submit a bug in the hypergrid-groups?
[11:26] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: a mantis
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: simulator core
[11:27] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: the problem is this. When I join a group in a hypergrid grid
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: mantis did not have seperate hypergrid section ?
[11:27] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: and want to leave that group it is no possible. I get message asking if I want to leave bla bla etc
[11:28] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: but next login the group its still there. Going to the grid where I joined, wont help either. Asking the group owner to remove me, wont work
[11:29] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: once I have tried to left the group then I disappear in the grid group, but it is sitll in my home grid and counts tower the local groups of 50 max
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: ya sounds like bug or just something that never got implemented
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: can the group owner eject you?
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's a old problem too
[11:30] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: if I left before I asked the group owner to eject me, then the group owner can not find me in his group
[11:30] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: and therefore can not eject me
[11:30] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: so the work around its, to ask the owner to eject you, then TP to your local grid. Clean cache 2-3 times
[11:31] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: relog every time and then leave the group then clean cache, relog. The group is gone! lool
[11:32] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: I will submit a mantis. Thanks Neb :)
[11:32] Robert Adams: there is a lot of group and message caching in opensim. the code could use a visit to think about hgrids 
[11:34] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: a last quick question. What causes the Unknown user? is there something one can do about it? I have so many contacts that are Unknown, so no idea who they (were) are
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: yea It is always good to file a mantis, i know a lot of people feel like it is a waste of time but it is not
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: I see people claiming we never look at them or fix them, but if that were true we would have zero closed mantis reports
[11:35] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Another thing with groups, is when joining a group on a remote grid you are ask to join again when you return home, but it lists the url as 127.0.0.1 which then creates problems when people group message
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: that sounds like someone has something misconfigured Billy
[11:35] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: ah true Bill
[11:35] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I don't neb
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: but it could be bug but generally when i see 127.0.0.1 someone has something misconfigured some where
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: id bet money on it
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: not saying its you
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: but somewhere in the chain something is likely misconfigured
[11:36] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: ok
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: with hypergrid it gets tricky for sure
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: all it takes is visiting one misconfigured region
[11:36] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I will configure an experiment
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: and it will follow you
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: same goes for that Unkown User thing
[11:37] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: the unknown its locally misconfguration too?
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of the time its becasue a region you visit somewhere has that cached
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: thats why clearing cache and relog fixes it
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: freaky cache problems always
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: the way we cache things and the way the viewer in general uses its cache
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: it was never truly designed to work in a Hypergrid style environment
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: we keep putting more and more duct tape
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: without fixing the root problems
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer itself
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its kind of amazing we can hypergrid at all
[11:38] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: haha yes seems so
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: considering no care was ever taken on the viewer side to really accomodate it
[11:39] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I have trapped that issue, and I change the unknown name so I could tell which sim past the message.. still under investigation
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: great
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: many have tried
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: the problem is there is likely a dozen different ways that can happen
[11:39] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: It ties in with another message
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: you fix one and break another
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: its a vicious circle
[11:39] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: Billy you mean to fix the Unknown user name?
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Justin spent many weeks trying to fix it
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: with very little success
[11:40] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: In progress Isis, I spend half my VW life touring grids :)
[11:40] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: ufff
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but its good to look
[11:40] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: oh that would be kewl Billy :))
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: even if we fix one cause its a good thing
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: there likely wont be one single cause you will find
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: you will notice that sumtimes the last name the UMMA
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: has different code
[11:41] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: well dont worry Neb, we will buy you a whole truck full of tape :)
[11:41] Robert Adams: it is a tough race condition between the simulator and the viewer
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: each one of those is from a different bug
[11:41] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Never know sometimes when these issues are just me, these meeting are important to know other have the same experience
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: absolutely :)
[11:41] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: yes, to exchange experiences
[11:41] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: wish more would attend
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: yea spread the word :)
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: for some its hard this time of day
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: for me its much easier during the work hours
[11:42] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: I would also like to appleal to other users, if I have not rezzed Please tell me :)
[11:42] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: shall I? I can try to do it in G+
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: sure, promote away :)
[11:42] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: Billy you are full rezzed
[11:42] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: yeah !!!
[11:42] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: nice hat Billy :))
[11:43] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: lol
[11:43] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: keeps may hait hypergrid dust free
[11:43] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: I think I rez now faster since I copy the whole outfit to My Suitcase, specially meshes work better
[11:43] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: hair*
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: that is a great suggestion Isis
[11:43] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: agree Isis
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: if you are a hypergrid traveler keep your entire appearance in the suitcase
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: you will have much much better success
[11:44] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: yes, it helps
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: that goes for animations/gestures etc.. too
[11:44] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: nice comments from kitely, re the flickering water on firestorm, fix works a treat. thanks kitely
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: can you elaborate? im unfamiliar with the issue
[11:45] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: ah the post from Ozwell right?
[11:45] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: ah, need to dig 1 sec
[11:45] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: he has been contributing lately with some tips and fixes, really useful
[11:45] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: yes
[11:45] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Isis
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew, i get the error with the autoback that it's trying to add some object. but that object with the same key already been added. and that error keeps coming over and ovver again
[11:45] Robert Adams: water in distant region spaces can flicker
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes same uuid too
[11:47] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: still looking lol
[11:48] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: https://www.kitely.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3211
[11:48] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: :)) thanks Billy
[11:49] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: No 2 Firestorm have already changed internally
[11:49] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: phew
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: cool thanks!
[11:49] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: On my Firestorm at least
[11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 1. Blinky/flickering water can be fixt by pressing i think ctrl-shift-O or it where ctrl-alt-O i forgot it again
[11:49] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: In firestorm viewer
[11:50] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: I get flickering of the region terrain, not the water
[11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: huh ?
[11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: prim on top of the terrain ?
[11:50] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: specially when I cam away. Of the terrain
[11:51] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: the whole region flickerst I see terrain and what seems to be the water under it
[11:51] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Isis object-object occlusion make no difference to the terrain issue?
[11:51] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: Billy I have not tried that yet
[11:52] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: will do and tell yu next time
[11:52] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Well worth a try I would think
[11:52] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: yes
[11:52] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: drove me nuts lol
[11:52] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: I changed to Replex lol
[11:53] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: there are some fabulous regions and that flicker ruined everything
[11:53] Lucy Afarensis: I have never seen that with singularity
[11:53] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Good to know
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: has anyone made the Firestorm devs aware of these issues?
[11:54] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: can second that. I dont have that issue with Singularity or Replex the hybrid from Singu
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: singularity seems fine yes
[11:55] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: never seen that problem. but i use old version
[11:55] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: I have not. I must confess I seldom submit anything to the Firestorm bugs tracker. My bad, I know
[11:55] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: guess many of us dont do it
[11:56] Lucy Afarensis: A few years ago I had the water turn black around my sim in SL
[11:56] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: polution bad thesedays
[11:57] Lucy Afarensis: lindens said it was a server issue
[11:57] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, last time i see more zactivity about that bug report
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: I have been seeing on odd issue for a while in the message when I TP somewhere within a grid.
[11:58] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: which message?
[11:58] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: http://jira.phoenixviewer.com/browse/FIRE-11965
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a machine with two an IP address and primary domain name but it also has another DNS entry that maps to the same IP. When I TP a message shows a URL that has the secondary domain name, not the primary.
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: cool good that there is a jira report
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: How does it determine which domain name to report in the URL when you TP somewhere?
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: whatever is defined in Regions.ini
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: Regions just uses the IP address
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: the only other place urls are defined is the GridCommon.ini
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: seems unlikely it could just be pulled from DNS alone
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: possible though if you are using hosts file to set this
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm, and opensim.ini this days ? Consts ?
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: maybe its just reverse lookup from IP
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: and its grabbing first entry returned
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: It is like it is messing up on a reverse DNS since the reverse DNS is set to point to the primary domain name.
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: host file is going to override everything
[12:02] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: Which mono version are you using Andrew?
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Its a windows box running the region. No hosts file.
[12:02] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: I added my domain to the host file, now less problems
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: odd
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. I'll have to set aside sometime to see if I can figure out what is going on.
[12:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: can the autobackup programmed to make the backup on soem custom time ?
[12:05] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: because many of us in standalones in own PC behind same network, have such problems when returning home, Fred something about opensims asks for the internat IP, while the router expects an external IP, does it make sense?
[12:06] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: otherwise I will bring this to the next meeting. Must ask Fred what he exactly said and meant :)
[12:07] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: (sorry Richard, I came in between, was typing and did not see it sorry)
[12:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: np.
[12:08] Billy.Bradshaw @hg.viewtwo.net:8600: must go.. toodle pip
[12:08] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: take care Billy
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya I need to get back to work myself
[12:08] Lucy Afarensis: bye billy
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: anyone else have any questions or want to say anything?
[12:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yeah. i head home too
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: if not same time next week
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: tell your friends :)
[12:09] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: ok then see you all at the next time
[12:09] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: Neb these meeting every week at same time?
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[12:09] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: to promote in G+
[12:09] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: ok
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I just checked my IP/DNS entries. The URL on a TP is a secondary domain name for the machine running Robust.
[12:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes isis. except when we get the change to stupid summertime
[12:10] Isis.Ophelia @arcana.hopto.org:9021: ok :)