Chat log from the meeting on 2016-01-12

[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon is not expected to be here today. He is in Sweden for two weeks. This week he has lots of meetings. He might have more time next week to attend the meeting.
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Small meeting today with just four of us here.
[11:05] Andrew Hellershanks: We might as well wait a few minutes more to see if anyone else shows up before we get started.
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: I was pleased when FireStorm and other viewers got the export option,
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Kayaker, I was just telling the others that nebadon won't be joining us this week.
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: but now everything I do has mesh components
[11:08] Kayaker Magic: and Firestorm cannot export them any more.
[11:09] Kayaker Magic: is there a viewer that can save things with mesh prims?
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Which version of Firestorm?
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: fighting with mesh clothing. it works. but as soon you try othe rposes thing get screwed. it looks like it following the avatar verticles/ and that deforms the clothing
[11:10] Aurora Pearl: Popular
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: I'm on an old copy of FireStorm on this machine. (I hate doing clean updates, they should automate that!)
[11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: I've never had to do anything special when updating FS. I just extract the new binaries and start running i.
[11:11] Madison Adored: lol
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't used, or tried to use, export in a viewer for a long time. FS is the most up-to-date viewer of the ones I have installed.
[11:12] Kayaker Magic: They always warn you delete old caches and things,
[11:12] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Neb in Sweden still ?
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: FS can backup your settings. except i still need to adjust always the cloud color manual. FS is terrible in the default
[11:12] Kayaker Magic: when an update has errors they always tell you to go do that again
[11:12] Andrew Hellershanks: Lucy, yes. He is going to be there for 2 weeks.
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup
[11:12] Kayaker Magic: So are we on our own without Neb today?
[11:13] Andrew Hellershanks: yup.
[11:13] Kayaker Magic: Does anyone here know who is working on llCastRay?
[11:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know. That was talked about in the past. You could check the archives of past meetings to see if it has been mentioned.
[11:14] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: What is LLcastray for ?
[11:14] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: do ?
[11:14] Kayaker Magic: I'm doing some testing for a mantis, and found out there are 3 versions of llCastray you can select in the INI files.
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: V1 works OK in single regions, and is VERY SLOW in var regions.
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: V3 crashed on me once, have not been able to repeat that.
[11:15] Kayaker Magic: Not sure which one I should be testing
[11:16] Kayaker Magic: V1 is currently the default in the INI file.
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks: Lucy, the lsl wiki says llCastray will cast a ray from start to end and report collision data for intersections with objects.
[11:17] Kayaker Magic: Yes, and even for short start-to-ends, V1 of llCastRay takes 30ms, which I used to think was too long
[11:17] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: ok
[11:18] Kayaker Magic: but in a varrregion, it takes 600 to 700 ms
[11:18] Kayaker Magic: V3 is much faster, doesn't take longer in a var, but I'm afraid to use it because of the crash
[11:18] Kayaker Magic: I'll try to find a way to repeat that.
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Do you get a back trace when it crashes?
[11:19] Kayaker Magic: It was on Kitely, I'll have to ask them to check the console
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: ok
[11:22] Kayaker Magic: Tough audience today....
[11:22] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:23] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Neb is missed
[11:23] Andrew Hellershanks: Anyone else have something they want to discuss?
[11:24] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Any thought on better communication with the general meteverse people ?
[11:24] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: That was kind of just rolling through my mind too... considering LL is having another "Lab Chat" later this month.
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 21 jan
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: Lucy, A couple of people last week mentioned they were going to work on that.
[11:25] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I think it tooks the devs by suprise the reaction to aine blog
[11:25] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: took
[11:25] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhh, seena bit of it. forgot the text
[11:25] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: Is her blog only on G+?
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: I've not seen the post. I don't usually read blogs.
[11:26] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: I think many did not understand anything about except that her dance ball did not work under 9
[11:26] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: oh wait the problems about forking and scripts that brteak etc. a bit annoying post.
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i stopped reading it.
[11:27] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: That dance ball in VERY popular
[11:27] Andrew Hellershanks: What is the name for the dance ball?
[11:27] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well, am pretty sure it did happen many times and still happen in Secondlife with things too
[11:28] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: http://ainetutorials.blogspot.nl/ this one i think
[11:28] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Oh it does I'm sure
[11:29] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: And I believe she now has a working version now that she will release soon
[11:29] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... not a dance machine I have heard of before now.
[11:29] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: It is all over the metaverse
[11:29] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: better than most others
[11:30] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: It is a very nice product. I have seen it in most of the clubs I have visited across many grids.
[11:32] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't been to a club in SL for a while and I don't usually pay much attention to the name on the dance machines.
[11:34] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Not sure how to address this communatio problem between devs that do spend much time exploring this world you are programing for
[11:34] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.9.0.0 Dev        7831d21: 2015-12-27 15:05:17 -0800 (Unix/Mono)
[11:34] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: not spend
[11:35] ladyjo martin: aines dance ball better than any in sl
[11:35] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: second that
[11:35] Kayaker Magic: It is very good, with NPC dance partners.
[11:36] ladyjo martin: and her new one is even better
[11:36] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't do a lot of coding for OpenSim. I work on a few small pieces of it now and then. I mostly work on some add-on modules.
[11:36] ladyjo martin: she said it should be released end of month or first of feb
[11:38] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: As a metaverse consumer, I wonder if OpenSim will be developing features more along what its userbase wants and desires rather than trying to fit the technology that SL is forcing viewer devs to incorporate?
[11:39] Kayaker Magic: We never bothered with pathfinding, for example.
[11:39] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: I realize many features from SL make it into OpenSim because many of use use both grids.
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Sap. problem is for big part the viewer
[11:40] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: did not need it with npcs
[11:40] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: I know. I have been round and round with some viewer devs about trying to build an OpenSim centric viewer but, as they tell me, the problem is time and personnel resources... the same issues that all community run projects have.
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: That is a problem for OpenSim. If SL adds a feature that would be nice to have in OS but it needs some additional support from the viewer, there isn't a lot of incentive to add the feature to OS if there are no viewers that are able or willing to do updates to support OpenSim grids.
[11:43] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Another problem that needs to addressed is when you have a lot of avies on a sim there can be problems with things like mesh and textures not rezzing
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks: Lucy, what do you consider "a lot of avies"?
[11:44] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: some blame it on viewer some on the server
[11:44] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: over 15
[11:44] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: Lucy, that was a huge problem this past weekend on SL itself, so even they are still coping with traffic.
[11:44] ladyjo martin: and the floating drives me nuts
[11:45] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: AM afraid opensim and seconlife are getting fast old. especially on how things work
[11:45] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000 nods in agreement with Richardus
[11:46] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: I like the OpenSim/SL classic platform. I fear, as a user, that if Sansar does bring about the end of SL that OpenSim will "dry up" too as devs move on to the newer HiFi/Sansar models.
[11:47] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: platform is maby nice. the scale of buildings and camera nagle not. and the way assets etc. work looks to gte old too. Hypergrid is a bit the first idea of what comes i think
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: If SL was to dry up, perhaps that would free up devs who were working on SL viewers so they could work on one to support OpenSim.
[11:48] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Mabye it would happen. who knows
[11:48] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but, secondlife not gone for many years
[11:48] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: Yes, Andrew, that is possible but the trick is to build the OpenSim userbase so there is a reason for devs to continue the product.
[11:49] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: One of the problems for Sansaar and some of the others is that the user base is here and SL and many do not want to start over as noobs
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: OpenSim and viewers are somewha co-dependant
[11:50] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: And that comes to Lucy's point about communication with the OpenSim users... what are the project technology milestones... or, in other words, "the shiny" that can attract new users... perhaps move them over from SL legacy?
[11:50] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Aines dance ball is big one
[11:50] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: I must admit, so are the rest of her club products.
[11:50] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: and shiney :)
[11:51] Kayaker Magic: Lots of SL users want to bring physical vehicle scripts with them go here.
[11:51] Kayaker Magic: InWorldz spent a lot of effort getting their physics engine to run old scripts from SL
[11:51] stiofain nbmcmedia: yea aines stuff is great but are many ppl reporting probs with 9.0
[11:52] George Equus: Ability to move vehicles smoothly across regions is rather crucial to many in SL...
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: George, Sim crossing is being worked on in 0.9
[11:53] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: Varregions can tend to help reduce the issue of regional border crossings, but I do not know if many will create a varregion the size of an SL mainland.
[11:53] George Equus: I know. tried it and it do work better than it ever have, but far from as smooth as in SL unfortunately
[11:54] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: SL still has areas on mainlands that are awful in border crossings though. So the technology, even for them, is still elusive.
[11:54] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Even with var regions I think it important that crossings be worked on
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Sappadilli, you can't make a single var the size of SL mainland and fill it with items. Vars shouldn't be bigger than 10x10 and that is pushing it for a region with lots of prims.
[11:54] George Equus: VAR  is in itself a "workaround" not really supported, right?
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Var regions is more a replacement for mega regions.
[11:54] Kayaker Magic: "mega" is no longer supported, "var" is.
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: mega regions were more a work around to sim crossings when they were first created.
[11:56] George Equus: Megas IS an unsupported option for sure.
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Support for mega regions will be dropped a few releases down the road.
[11:57] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: Diva mentioned that her 0821 is the last version that will support "mega".
[11:57] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: In her release notes, that is.
[11:58] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: In SL I had a sim that was part of agroup called the Delphic archipelago
[11:58] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: We were able to sale around a group of 16 sim or Islands
[11:58] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: lot of fun
[11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yes andrew, land sizes in opensim are going to run behind what new things can. not easy to change to
[11:59] stiofain nbmcmedia: im more worried about tping to other regions than crossing we have had 40 avs in the past with no probs now when a few ppl tp in from 9.0 regions it kills the sim at about 12 avs  rezz times go from a few secs to 30 mins in some cases
[11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: megs, are easy sayed crap
[11:59] George Equus: Blake sea in SL is a huge place for flying I believe
[11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup. but all seperate sims
[12:00] stiofain nbmcmedia: anyone seen similar?
[12:00] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes
[12:00] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: stio
[12:00] George Equus: TP  and HG in general is not near as smooth now as was a few months ago
[12:01] Kayaker Magic: InWorldz mostly solved the sim crossing and has the "I'z Straits" for sailing and flying over.
[12:01] stiofain nbmcmedia: i think is a major prob but is nothing on g+ nabble etc
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen vars used for sailing areas in OS.
[12:01] stiofain nbmcmedia: makes it impossible to run an event
[12:01] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes, because water works good on HUGH var.
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: stio, I have seen where some things take longer in a var.
[12:02] George Equus: I came here today, went HG as I was early but coming back here  was really really difficult
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and i think, better not use linux. curius if vars work betetr onm windows compared to linux ?
[12:03] stiofain nbmcmedia: we have win server
[12:03] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: My standalone is on a residential ISP broadband connection, running OS X.
[12:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: stiof, make sure you configure opensim so bullet have it's own physics thread
[12:03] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: Hard to compare how my standalone performs as it is empty of anything right now.
[12:03] stiofain nbmcmedia: ok noted
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: George, what part was difficult? Arriving in to the grid or having things rez in?
[12:04] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: things rez in
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: My standalone only has a couple thousand prims.
[12:04] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: but both can be aproblem
[12:04] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: Yeah, I entered fine... rezzing myself here never fully completed.
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: if that. Mostly it has a number of scripted gadgets I'm working on.
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: rezzing issues isn't something confined to 0.9. I see that in 0.8 now and then.
[12:05] Andrew Hellershanks: Not sure what causes it as it is always the case.
[12:05] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: Sapadilli you are rezzed to me
[12:05] George Equus: Getting time out when trying HG back from various locations across. Finally managed to get to Pathfinders place and via Belfast TP back here....  made at least 4 jumps
[12:05] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: Clothed, I hope. :P
[12:06] George Equus: Ridiculous...
[12:06] stiofain nbmcmedia: but has got way worse with 9
[12:06] Lucy.Afarensis @cc.opensimulator.org:8002: yes
[12:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: enough bandwidth
[12:06] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: I know a part of my rezzing problems is my network connection.
[12:07] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: My upload is a measley 1mbps, not anything I can support with a public standalone, really.
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I would think your download speed is more important than upload.
[12:08] stiofain nbmcmedia: we have top end server with unlimited b width
[12:08] George Equus: I usually rez fine at least  to myself. But some always see me without trousers...   (mesh)
[12:08] Andrew Hellershanks: My upload speed is very low.
[12:08] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: How nice George. :)
[12:09] George Equus: I got  100/100 fiber connection...   but slow to connect US servers
[12:09] Sappadilli.Dallagio @sappalandros.twilightparadox.com:9000: Upload speed for me, for instance, would hinder others from visiting my standalone and getting decent rezz times.