Chat log from the meeting on 2015-10-27

Video of Meeting

Internet Acrhive: OpenSimulator Developer Meeting October 27, 2015

Chat Log

[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[11:04] Sheera Khan: and lots of "unable to fetch profile data still :-/
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: unable to fetch data will likely be normal for HG travelers at the moment
[11:04] Marcus Llewellyn: You're late. Again. We're docking your pay.
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: depends on what version of profiles the grid is running
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: unfrotunately osgrid still runs the original one
[11:05] Sheera Khan: yes yes ...
[11:05] Sheera Khan: I know ...
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: Anyone who is interested in volunteering for OSCC this year please make sure to regsiter asap
[11:06] Sheera Khan: maybe it could be a good idea to switch that with the mandatory update announced?
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: http://conference.opensimulator.org/2015/
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: that wont happen for a while
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: so im not going to really get into that now
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: as I have no idea when that will happen
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: wont be before OSCC though
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: would be to chaotic
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: it may not be as bad as you think either
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: if you are running 0.8.1-post fixes or newer you will be ok
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: we will make sure everyone gets ample notice
[11:08] Sheera Khan: sure, I'm on 0.8.2-DEV
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: we wont just pull the trigger without a lot of notice
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: if you are on 0.8.1 dev fully updated you are probably ok already
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: if you know anyone who might be interested in OSCC volunteering or planning an event
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: the second day this year is basically just all informal stuff
[11:10] Sheera Khan: is there a special commit which has to be included  to be save?
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt even have to be on the OSCC grid
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it hasnt really been determined yet Sheera, but I think right now its safe to say when it happens anyone running 0.8.1-post-fixes branch or newer will be ok
[11:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's timed for people in the netherlands on bad day. 5 december is feast day for many
[11:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: (not mne)
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: oh that sucks
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: my experieence tells me though that almost every day of the year somebody has something going on
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:11] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: well, mostly for people with kids..
[11:11] Sheera Khan: well, Metro uses a relativly early 0.8.2-DEV that's from a time just about when 0.8.1-postfixes was released
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: I have no doubt metro will be fine
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: as long as everyone is keeping up to date
[11:12] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's sint nicolas here in the country
[11:12] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: i know, i'm dutch too :)
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ok well be sure to email the conference commitee and let them know
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so we can possibly avoid that in the future
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: you might be able to send notes when you register too
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: so please mention it then as well
[11:13] Sheera Khan: 12/6 is St Nikolaus in Germany
[11:13] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.3.0 Dev        41b2855: 2015-10-21 16:47:56 -0700 (Unix/Mono)
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: it will all be streamed and recorded
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: so you could in theory watch on tablet or phone
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: and still kind of partake
[11:14] Marcus Llewellyn: Has a atreaming service been chosen?
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I am not sure
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: my time is very limited this year
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i cant really be on every team again
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I suspect though that has not been fully decided and options are always welcome
[11:15] Marcus Llewellyn: This year should be LOTS simpler to stream anyway.
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: maybe can even have multiple camera views going of same event
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: kind of as backup as well
[11:16] Marcus Llewellyn: Last year I sat so long doing it that I had cramps in my legs. lol
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: have to but sooner you can register as a volunteer and get involved the better
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: time is short
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: haha ya
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: its always a long weekend
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: this year will only be 1 hardcore day
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: so should be a bit less stress
[11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: And only one track, yeah?
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: yes all the presentations will occur in the keynote area
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: and we will have expo zones like previous years
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: but there will hopefully be a lot more external events this year
[11:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Why you cannot have a static camera. so you run it and not need todo much after that
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: so we can rely more on Hypergrid
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: Richardus
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: basically that is what we do
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: but sometimes there are slides
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: and otehr things you need to focus on
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: we have a nice camera hud
[11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Because streamers also coordinate parcel audio, skype calls, etc. It's more complicated than it sounds.
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: that lets the person who is streaming pick various camera angles easily
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: yea it is highly coordinated event
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of work, but its always fun too
[11:19] Marcus Llewellyn smiles. :)
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: already seeing a lot of interest so that is good
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: bunch of volunteers have registerd, but we can certainly always use more
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: so spread the word if you can
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: even if thats all you can do its great help
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: also I need some good builder types
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: who can clean up last years oars
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: the Landing Zone and Breakout zone
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: need to be cleaned up so I can share the oars
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: i already have regions setup on OSCC grid to do it
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: we need to remove all the event stuff and make it more generric
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: so basically its like a Landing Zone and Breakout Zone Template
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: anyway thats about it for OSCC. If you have questions just let me know
[11:23] Marcus Llewellyn: Willl there be door prizes? ;)
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: Their has been talk of another prize hunt type game
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: so we also need people who have good content they made who are ok with giving them as prizes
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: of course needs to be stuff that people will find interesting and useful
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: There will probably be some physical rewards for people who can donate at certain levels
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: I will be making another 3D printed design
[11:24] Marcus Llewellyn: Phrasing. ;)
[11:25] Andrew Hellershanks: oops... I'm back. I'm in the middle of setting up a new server.
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: The Hypergrid Safari folks are heavily involved this year
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: and they have some plans to show off hypergrid
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: so that is good
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: you can probably speak with them to be part of a tour
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: if you have something cool to show off
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything else they wanted to talk about?
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: are we into DST yet?
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: no next week
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: ok taht should be fun
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: take note all of you European Folks
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: there will be a 1 hour skew for a few weeks
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi taps mic... is this thing on...
[11:29] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why is SL/OS mesh and importer so complex. grin. especially the Uvmapping si terrible. because the 102px limit
[11:29] Marcus Llewellyn: Huh?
[11:29] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: And still the quality is possibl;e but with bigger size
[11:30] Marcus Llewellyn: What 102px limit?
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: honestly
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: many game engines have much lower limits
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you should feel luck to have 1024px support
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: with 8 of them
[11:30] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 1024px texture size. well i big building you cannot uv-map from materials -> baked
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you could do 8096x1024
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: tried to bake more the 1 , but nr.2 you get objects or image erros in blender
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: or 4096x4096
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: man my cat is being so annoying at the moment
[11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: I do multiple materials (textures) in blebder all the time. Works grea.
[11:31] Marcus Llewellyn: great
[11:31] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: neb, thats' big in fielsize. but viewer cannot handle 4096
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: no im saying tile them
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: not a singletexture
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Sorry, if you have done it the High Fidelity and possible SanSar way. SL/OS is terrible
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: you can use 8 1024x1024 on a single mesh object
[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: If you use all 8 materials, you can apply 8 1024 textures.
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: whaat
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: High Fideltiy was so bad
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: sure you can do whatever you want
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yes marcvus. but bake 8 UV maps. i can do one. fail at bnr. 2
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: but there are consequences
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: those limits are there for good reason
[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: You don't have to bke 8 UV maps.
[11:32] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i know. filesize
[11:32] Marcus Llewellyn: You can bake it all to one map.
[11:33] Marcus Llewellyn: It sounds mostly like you need to learn more about blender, honestly.
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus. No the resolution is going so much down. a brick is not a brick anymore
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: I would have to disagree
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus, i know blender perfect. works smooth in high fidelity
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: even HighFideltiy has limits
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: on how many materials
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Yup. but there you do not need to bake uv-maps
[11:33] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No mat. limit
[11:34] Marcus Llewellyn: High Fidelity lets you be lazy. It lets you import unoptimized mesh. Here, everything is geared twoard trying to make you optimize.
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: if you think there is no limit
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: you are sadly mistake
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: try it
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: i dare you
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: try applying a huge texture
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: it make work on 1 object
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but not 100s
[11:34] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Marcus. no, i think it's betetr in resources. instead one big or more big uv-maps you can use more small textures.
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: webgl will be way worse
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: you think this environment is bad
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: give webgl a shot
[11:35] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why you want to apply a hugh texture ? that's the bad size of OS/.SL there you need to use large texture for good quality. in HiFi you can do it with much smaller ones
[11:35] Marcus Llewellyn: Many small download is not better than one largish one. It's more network resources, more client resources.
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: most game engines what we do here in opensim
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: would be considered lunacy
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: crazy town
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[11:36] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I see yoou made it
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Anyway, bake 15 materials back to 1 uv map is a fail in quality
[11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: my script is acting strange here
[11:36] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: baking 2 uv maps = error in blender. and not sure why it's doing that
[11:36] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: turn voice off -- then back on
[11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: conflicting with other grids maby
[11:36] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: mayby
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: I can say without a doubt texturing in blender is difficult
[11:36] Idler Upkeep: I'm Still Online. Testing Idle Loop Chat functions.
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Textureing in blender is peanuts
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: but I can get just as good a quality here as I can in Unity or High Fidelity
[11:37] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: texturing in blender is easy
[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aslong you not use baking
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: it would be crazy to bake that much detail into 1 texture
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: its your actions that dictate quality
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: not the software
[11:38] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: my jetpack and helmet I baked in blender
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: not in this case anyway
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: bake 8 textures
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: instead of 1
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: you can back 100 textures in blender
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: but OS of course wont support it
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: back=bake
[11:38] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Nebadon  can answer questions -- he is smat
[11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: smart
[11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: actually I been using 1 most the time, only complex buildings i need more than 1 texture
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: i read that with boston accent
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: whicked smat
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: small things are good to bake. buildings not. i wher ehoping to split it on more uv baked maps. but blender not uinderstand it after bake 1
[11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: lol
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ya thats like a matter of Training Richardus
[11:39] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: furniture etc. i would try to bake.
[11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: this is a good place to visit
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: baking textures i an artform
[11:39] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I am takiingLM
[11:39] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: you UV unwrap the sections you want to have a different texture on
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: however i would be surprised if any of use area actually hittin the limits of quality here
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: i cant speak for everyone
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: but i know im quite far from being a blender master
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: and I very happy with quality
[11:40] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: UV unwrap separate Materials
[11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Well tell em what is wrong. because on the second object in the same project i did the same steps as with the forst one that did bake fine. but the seconde i get the object not found image not foudn error. and i have a black new image to bake on
[11:40] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: use "P" to "separate" the materials as well for more materials than 8
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: I am still learning texturing in blender
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: i have the basics down, and I have experiment with baking ambient occlusion
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: it can be complicated
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: No , not use P. it's already seperated 1 3 parts with building
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: but if you have it set right
[11:41] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: Neb -- can donny show a different display name instead of the one he is now using?
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: there is no reason blender couldnt bake 1000 textures simultaneously
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: might take a few days
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: but it can
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: Selby no we do not have Display Name functionality
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: would have to make a new account
[11:42] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: thanks -- Thats what i thougt
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: I was playing with Blender Fire and Smoke few days ago
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: its really awesome
[11:43] Andrew Hellershanks: cool.
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: voxels
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: The whole baking is getting anyway a bit pushed in the background next year i think. not say that the auto splitter is a good idea
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqnOKhx4NIc
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: you could easily use blender fire an smoke I think to generate a 16 cell fire animation
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: here
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: i havent gotten that far yet
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: id like to try it
[11:44] Nebadon Izumi: like the one in the fireplace behind me
[11:45] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: selected the material when done with it, on your mesh, by going in "edit mode", press "A" to select all, then again to deselect or click until all faces are not selected, and make sure you click "face edit mode", then in the materials panel, click the material you want to change or UV unwrap, then click the select button below the materials page, to select all of this material type, make sure seams are already marked, and this assumes they are already marked, and then press "U" and "Unwrap" and adjust as needed, you can keep it with the model, or press "P" to separate it form the rest of the build to make room for more Materials.
[11:45] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: brb
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: i have been starting to collect good blender tutorials
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: and putting links here
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: http://nebadon2025.com/opensim/viewforum.php?f=14&sid=9a43f4b234ad086ba3acfc5445fe3391
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone is interested
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: or has some good stuff for beginners
[11:46] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: feel free to use my text as a tutorial
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: I can add them up
[11:46] Idler Upkeep: I'm Still Online. Testing Idle Loop Chat functions.
[11:47] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: brb
[11:48] Selby.Evans @grid.kitely.com:8002: I have to go -- thanks Nebadon
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no problem, same time every week :)
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: I have to say I learned a lot about blender and good modeling practices trying to port my content from opensim to Unity WebGL
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: if you want to become a master modeler get your content viewable in WebGL
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: its to easy to be sloppy here
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: while those same good principles apply here, we very loosely enforce them
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: if we even do at all
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks: Best practices for importing models to Blender so they can be converted to Collada format would also be helpful.
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya that takes a lot of experimenting i have found
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: i cant say there is a 1 fit solution
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: from my experience anyway
[11:50] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: the amount of variables is staggering
[11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: I'll be working on another model in Rhino soon that I will want to bring in to OS.
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: I found Rhino to be the most difficult
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: that i have had to deal with so far anyway
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: Archicad is close
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: most of the Autocad apps are farly easy
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: but not all formats are importable to blender
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: like .max
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but .3ds is awesome
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: my favorite to convert
[11:52] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: got a link to WebGL?
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: well WebGL is the Web Browser version of OpenGL
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that we use
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: Might help just knowing what file format to use when I export from Rhino.
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: its a low level programming language
[11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: hm... I'll try .3ds next time. I've been using .obj.
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: yes .3ds is safest bet from Rhino
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: .obj is good for Geometry as well
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: but not for materials
[11:53] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Hmm. stupid. i do not need to bake everything to uv-map. only smaller parts. bit not think it make things faster uv-map is bigger then seperate textures still
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, they just both generate lots of triangles/faces and such I don't think about in Rhino.
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: ya Rhino has no concept of triangles
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: until you export
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: its all nurbs and stuff
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: Then I find I have to start decimating the model.
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: yea
[11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: well I have no issues with my builds, so I am going back home
[11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: nice meeting ya
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: the last rhino model i did was 3 million triangles
[11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[11:54] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: just have issues with scripts
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: http://projectrep.com/Upplands_Vasby/archive/Upplands_Vasby_01_002.png
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: I pulled in a detailed model of a Millennium Falcon and it was definitely up there. I forget how big it was.
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: that crazy train station was from Rhinop
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: i eventually got it into OpenSim
[11:55] Donny.Pepos @grid.kitely.com:8002: llLoopSound and llPlaySound are reversed in scripting
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: was a pain
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: almost 3 million triangles
[11:55] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, nice blimp
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: thats a freebie i give out
11:55] Nebadon Izumi: from OSCC last year actually
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: Could be fun to script that as a touring blimp.
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: appears i dont have a copy of it in this inventory
[11:56] Ubit Umarov: (oops )
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: yea especially once border cross is better
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: hello Ubit
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: just so you are aware Ubit
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: DST starts in USA next week
[11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: and in Canada
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: so there is skew for EU and USE for few weeks
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: USA* ah yea it does change for canada too? right?
[11:57] Ubit Umarov: hmm ok
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: I will try to remind on Irc next week
[11:57] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: No change in s arizona
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: i was a few minutes late myself today
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: haha ya I miss Arizona
[11:57] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: hehe
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: accept for when all the TV shows change time
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: but the clock didnt
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: that always annoyed me
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:58] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: yes very confusing
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Clocks in Canada change the first weekend in November, nebadon.
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ok cool same as here
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: hmm think also here in eu
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: there will be 2 or 3 meetings before EU changes
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I think
[11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, unless you are in one of the prairie provinces which don't change their clocks, afaicr
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: unless you guys changed again
[11:58] Ubit Umarov: last sunday of oct ?
[11:58] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: uh.. eu changed last weekend
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: oh ok
[11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: :)
[11:59] Ubit Umarov: ahh yes last sunday was last lol
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: so overall the entire thing is shorter for EU?
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: man DST is a nightmare
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: longer if they already changed clocks.
[11:59] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: the need to dump summertime worldwide. or dump wintertime and keep the summer all year
[11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: indeed :)
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya seriously
[11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, lets just dump winter. :)
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[11:59] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: as if timezones weren't complicated enough
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am not looking forward to January in Sweden
[12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I know. 36 timezones around the world.
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: be all cold and dark
[12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: yeah up north it gets even worse
[12:00] Ubit Umarov: hmm forgot to fix my clocks lol
[12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: no daylight for days!
[12:00] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: weeks..
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: that is basically when im going to sweden
[12:00] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: its like 4-5 hours of sun
[12:01] Andrew Hellershanks: Tom, for months if you are far enough north.
[12:01] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: at least there's the aurora borealis to make up for it
[12:02] Marcus Llewellyn looks around for something to stick a fork into.
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: ok well I will try to remind on IRC next week
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: there will still be confusion
[12:02] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Sorry, out of pumpkins
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: atleast its just 1 week
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: 1 more week i should say
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: I remember last year when for 5 minutes i thought we sheduled OSCC on DST day
[12:03] Ubit Umarov: there is a thing called.. UTC  but well
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: then i realized i was looking at wrong year
[12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: Grid time for meeting doesn't change so compare grid time to local time after the change and before the next meeting.
[12:04] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: I'm getting confused already
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[12:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup, as long you remember
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I am pretty sure that is the entire goal of DST
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: keep everyone confused as much as possible
[12:04] Ubit Umarov: lol
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: the OSCC grid is open
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: if anyone wants to poke around see how it holds up
[12:06] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: hgurl?
[12:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Same HG info as before?
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: you can HG there by going to http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002 Landing Zone 1
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: actually
[12:06] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: 24/7 or just for now?
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: let me give you the HG landing Zonw
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: Landing Zone 1 may not be HG accessible
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: its > http://cc.opensimulator.org:8002 "HG Landing Zone"
[12:07] Andrew Hellershanks: ok. I don't have the Landing zone. I have LM's for the four keynotes
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: Keynote is fine as well
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: the entire grid is not running quite yet
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: but there is enough to poke around see how it feels
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: maybe in few weeks after I am back from California
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: like 1/2 way through one of these meetings we can all jump to the Keynote
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: and run around like crazy people
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: What code will be used for the OSCC regions?
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: not sure
[12:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: think same as last yetar ?
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: maybe 0.8.2 release
[12:10] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks nods
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: worst case i may bring it up to the level Avacon grid is running
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: which is a later 0.8.1-dev
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: right now its running code from last year
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: but on reloaded server
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: went from opensuse 11.4 to 13.1
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: last year we ran on 11.4
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: it was aincent
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: Might be worth trying to use latest 082 and see how it holds up.
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: there was mummies!
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:11] Andrew Hellershanks: If you were really being adventurous you could use the avnmerge branch. ;)
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: :)
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: haha
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: no we wont do that directly
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: but we could have a place here on this grid so people could come try it
[12:12] Ubit Umarov: actually just pushed a fix to master, taken from avnmerge :p
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: nice
[12:13] Simulator Version v0.5 ruft: OpenSim 0.8.3.0 Dev        41b2855: 2015-10-21 16:47:56 -0700 (Unix/Mono)
[12:13] Andrew Hellershanks: Are the recent changes to master since 0.8.2 came out coming from avnmerge?
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: Or are they other changes that need to be copied to avnmerge?
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: no previus one i did it for master only
[12:14] Lucy.Afarensis @world.narasnook.com:8900: off to poke around been fun
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: but avn had the issues fixed
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: k
[12:14] Ubit Umarov: just a bit diferent code path in same cases
[12:15] Andrew Hellershanks: Just complicates things if code is being changed/fixed in master and those changes/fixes are handled differently in avnmerge or need to be copied to that avnmerge branch.
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: pervius was the ode crash, if wearign hair with fireworks :)
[12:15] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002 kommt in Chat-Reichweite (2.71 m).
[12:15] Ubit Umarov: previus..
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: today was a services crash  with wrong number of visualparameters
[12:16] Ubit Umarov: the broken singu alpha is doing that
[12:16] Kymmy Krasner: oo did osg crash
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: hey sorry i got a call
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: I need to get going anyway, i didnt even realize what time it is
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: I've stopped using Sing until I can check whether it is usable once more.
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything they need from me before i get going?
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: the release seems ok
[12:17] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I couldn't remind you of the meeting as you were on IRC.
[12:17] Marcus Llewellyn: I gotta skedaddle too. Video of the meeting will be available on Youtube and the INternet Archive this evening.
[12:17] Ubit Umarov: alpha is a disaster here
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: oh yea i rebooted machien
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: i never went back to IRC duh
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: let me do that
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: ive been so busy
[12:17] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: is Simcrossing workin on 0.8.3 ?
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: no
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I know. I was trying to work out how far back I have to go to get a stable Sing Alpha
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: only avinationmerge border cross works
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: it is.. if u cross naked at least :p
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: avinationmerge is the branch name
[12:18] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: ok, thx
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: git checkout avinationmerge
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I have to go back at least one more than i already have, AFAICT
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: after you clone repo
[12:18] Ubit Umarov: go back andrew ?
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, to an earlier release of Sing Alpha.
[12:19] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: border cross doesn't work?
[12:19] Tom.Frost @hypergrid.org:8002: i hadn't noticed that yet :)
[12:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, Sing Alpha I have still crashes too easily.
[12:19] Ubit Umarov: ahh ppl say last ok is 6610
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: That might be a version that came out after they fixed the bug(s) that made it crash in less than 1.5 minutes.
[12:20] Andrew Hellershanks: And that was without doing anything
[12:20] Ubit Umarov: on lst alpha avatar wearables are broken
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: to the point they could kill services ( mantis 7732)
[12:21] Andrew Hellershanks: Ubit, I have 6610 and I still don't think it is stable enough.
[12:21] Ubit Umarov: anything around is stable ? :)
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: :)
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: Usable?
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: back to the point i need to change viewers acording to what i want to do lol
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: ok guys thanks for coming I really have to go
[12:22] Ubit Umarov: well almost :)
[12:22] Andrew Hellershanks: alpha was crashing if I just looked at it funny. Didn't have to do much.
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: shout on IRC if you need me
[12:22] Nebadon Izumi: im back on
[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: yea. I still need to switch to Firestorm to talk on voice. I can't use Sing.
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: Dont forget about OSCC!!
[12:23] Nebadon Izumi: see ya
[12:23] Ubit Umarov: see if my push
[12:23] Wolf.Freeman @free-world.spdns.de:8002: my ROBUST returns every 30 min a [wifi] defaul request...whats that ???
[12:23] Andrew Hellershanks: I think I'll head out too. Gotta run some errands.