Chat log from the meeting on 2015-05-12

[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey is Online
[11:02] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: hello :)
[11:02] Nebs Metal Bar Stool v1.5 (w/sit & launch): Hello Nebadon Izumi, enjoy your sit..
[11:02] Bob.Wellman @www.pmgrid.org:8002 is Online
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: freakin Electric company decided to swap my power meter 10 minutes ago
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: no warning
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: just poof whole house shuts off
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: grr
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: hello
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[11:03] Dahlia Trimble: hi
[11:03] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Nice. company's you have there. ok, weird system to place the meters outside :) here the cannot get to it if i keep the door locked
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what would happen if because that youir computer get damaged because you where just doing bios flash nebadon ?
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: id pretty much be screwed heh
[11:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah....that's what insurance is for, if you can get the right clauses
[11:04] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: soory for the language. pile off as..ho..ses of the company
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or a UPS system like I have since the power here is a bit unreliable
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya my laptop survived :)
[11:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then I get a 20-minute window to shut things down properly
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: well, UPS in usa is really usefull
[11:05] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: 20min ? must be a 1400va ups
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i have had a chance to check rack servers in basement
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: im sure they are fine though
[11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello everyone
[11:06] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi andrew
[11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hello andrew
[11:07] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hi justin
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: so
[11:07] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm up and running again. In the last couple weeks I did a major upgrade of the components for my main computer, thanks in part to nebadon helping me narrow down my options.
[11:07] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002 waves silently
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: Jenkins has been acting a bit wierd lately
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: BlueWall said he will take a closer look at it soon
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: mostly its just slow as dirt
[11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Claps, you found finaly a solution andrew
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: @RiRa....no idea....when I bought the system I told the guy "I need a UPS that will give me enough time to shut down" and that's what he gave me.....for all I know it could be a couple of hamsters inside the box
[11:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but it works
[11:08] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Aine APC or ?
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: Richardus, yup. I went for the route of spending more $$ but I got a machine about 4 to 5 times faster than I had been running.
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: Justin not sure if you saw but diva did a major refactoring of initial inventory fetch
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: Andrew, still the best choice
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: its like 50-75% faster now
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: um.....rectangular and grey and not somewhere I can easily read a label on it
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: Also with a case with more space inside and with lots more memory,.
[11:09] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i can lucky delay mine, until i know what software need or it really dont work anymore
[11:09] Cuteulala Artis is Online
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: turns out Inventory links were extremely inefficient
[11:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't tried diva's inventory improvements but they really sound encouraging.
[11:09] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't have to insert hamster food so I assume there's something inside it like a battery
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: i made 3000 links in my inventory for this avatar
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it took over 3 hours to get my inventory about 95% downloaded
[11:10] Kayaker Magic: I have been folowing the Mantis notes on llCastRay, I vote for throwing out the old useless llCastRay and switching to the new one that actually works!!!
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: with divas new code it takes about 1 minute and 30 seconds
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: 3 hours?? eek.
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: for 48,000 items
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, have you tried links to links in inventory?
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:10] Andrew Hellershanks: ok
[11:10] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I haven't been able to test it yet.....the issues with the first couple iterations made Seth too nervous to apply it directly to RG yet
[11:10] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: is the inventory working ok for you aine? i know u had big problems before
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: of that 48k, 3k are links
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: I actually logged in here today
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: with cleared cache
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: normally that would have done quite a number on the simulator
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I can't test yet since I'm dependent on RG's Robust being updated
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: possibly even crashed it
[11:11] Dahlia Trimble: are links to links allowed?
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: not even a hiccup today
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: hmm not sure Dahlia
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: never tried
[11:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I have it on my regions but until Robust is improved it's meaningless to test it
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: i suspect it probably just links again to the original maybe
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: Dahlia
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: no
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer will not let me
[11:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so that side of it is up to Seth
[11:12] Nebadon Izumi: its not even an option
[11:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and first version of it breaking all the links didn't inspire him with a lot of confidence so I think he wants to wait for a few more bugs to be shaken out of it before he updates the grid
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: well I can say that here on OSgrid the improvement was drastic
[11:13] AlexRime SiLiSiLi is Online
[11:13] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: breaking links?
[11:13] Dahlia Trimble: is there a config change to go with it?
[11:13] Nebadon Izumi: no config changes
[11:13] Dahlia Trimble: robust also?
[11:14] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes....the first one broke all inventory links and the subsequent fixed one has mismatching folder counts
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so....
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: did anyone figure out what the folder count mismatch is?
[11:14] Dahlia Trimble: so a robust configu change is needed?
[11:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and was it fixed?
[11:14] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: how could it break links when its only reading and not writing?
[11:15] mattie mcbride is Offline
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: There is still that wierdness with the new firestorm
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: but that existed before the changes
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: so its unrelated
[11:15] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: that appears to be something LL possibly changed
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: its not their AIS3 system
[11:15] Nebadon Izumi: i tested disabling that in the viewer and it still occurs
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: eventually it does stop
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: after about 4 minutes
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: not sure how to pin that one down
[11:16] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: and your sure the viewer reaslly use the old system ?
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: Tank_Master said we should file a Jira
[11:16] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev adf0f49: 2015-05-09 08:58:59 -0700 (Unix/Mono)
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: I havent had a chance to do that yet
[11:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is the folder mismatchc perhaps related to the FS bridge?
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: not sure what that is
[11:17] Andrew Hellershanks is Offline
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: I am probably not the best person to be dealing with Firestorm issues
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: since I never use it
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I gether something to do with RLV but I'm not an expert on that since I don't use RLV
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: unless somsone points out a specific bug im trying to confirm
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: I run the risk of not being able to know some of the lingo there
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[11:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: well, last time Seth tested on the RG test set-up he said there's a folder count mismatch
[11:17] Nebadon Izumi: stalling out any kind of support
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: and he reported it in the Mantis
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: ya I am not sure, that is not something I experienced myself
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: there was a new mantis
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: or in that long mantis
[11:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but that was the old Mantis that I created to track the issue and which Diva said she wasn't going to read any more
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: if its in that long mantis its going to be ignored
[11:18] Andrew Hellershanks is Online
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: please do start a new one if it persists
[11:18] Nebadon Izumi: any new bugs need new mantis
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: mixing them into old mantis even if that mantis is the cause
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: is not proper procedure
[11:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I don't want to start any new ones or add any more notes to existing ones.....don't want to spam Mantis with reports
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: well if its a real bug
[11:19] Nebadon Izumi: its not spam
[11:19] Andrew Hellershanks: Bah! Singularity still often crashes when I switch desktop workspaces. :P
[11:19] Vimeo Player v1.0: You are not the owner of this screen!!
[11:19] Vimeo Player v1.0: You are not the owner of this screen!!
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: I think justin has that problem too
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: you use that app that lets you use multiple screens or something?
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: i forget the name
[11:20] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: that sounds linux... think i know that too from the past. not sure
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: I really should report the problem to Singularity.
[11:20] Andrew Hellershanks: Nebadon, its a feature of Linux and the gnome desktop.
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: ya Justin uses some other app for multiple computers and screens
[11:21] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: it's sofar i know suppported on all desktops in linux. so usefull
[11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: synergy
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya synergy
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: thats the one, that causes you some viewer pain sometimes?
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I've had a weird thing happening in the last week or two.....I've had a few occasions when I've been HGed somewhere and suddenly I get a script error notice telling me that I don't have permission to use OSSL functions....but the thing sending me the message is one o f my dance balls that someone else owns and has set up in their region
[11:21] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: is it possible it's somehow pulling script creator instead of script owner?
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: ya that happened here last week or two right
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: and everyone who saw it was using firestorm
[11:21] Nebadon Izumi: if i recall
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: the people who werent didnt see if
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: it*
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh, interesting
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:22] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Would it be worth reporting that I can't seem to see mesh attachments and avatars today? Whereas I could see them fine last week with an identical setup...
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: 2 or 3 people saw it
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: and all claimed they were on firestorm
[11:22] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: kk...well since you're aware of it I'll assume you'll report it
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: Allen and I were not and didnt see it
[11:22] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: <<< using FS .6.7
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: I will not be reporting
[11:22] Nebadon Izumi: I cant report things i dont experience
[11:22] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: +4
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: Sheera.Khan that may just be cache problem
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: it can happen with mesh and hypergrid a lot
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: clearing cache generally fixes it
[11:24] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: oh, ok - I'll do so
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: first thing to try anyway
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: if it constantly persists
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: then go about with a bug report
[11:24] Nebadon Izumi: if its a transient thing that isnt repeatble often, its likely not so much a bug and possibly just because of circumstances
[11:25] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I'll just retry...
[11:25] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: BRB
[11:25] Nebadon Izumi: kk
[11:25] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the interesting thing with that is the data is all in the viewer cache
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so when he relogs it will pull it from cache instantly
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: the same happens with animations, sometimes
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but until the relog there's usually no way to trick it into showing
[11:26] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: though sometimes toggling into wireframe and back will do it
[11:27] Nebadon Izumi: I have found zooming far away and back sometimes does it too
[11:28] Nebadon Izumi: not always though
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yes, sometimes that will work
[11:28] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it depends if it's a LOD issue or not
[11:28] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: no change ....
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Sheera, try toggling into wireframe and back
[11:29] Dahlia Trimble: clear cache and relog (tm)
[11:29] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Dahlia, that I just did
[11:29] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or...if you have an ATI graphics card and the latest drivers that can cause issues too....the ATI drivers are bugged
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: or as I like to call it the "LL Solution to everything"
[11:30] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: but that only fails to display rigged mesh...regular mesh is fine
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: the trick with clearing cache
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: you have to wait for everytihng in the region to load
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: before you HG out
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: your inventory, and the surrounding region
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: that can really up the odds of things being right when you arrive
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: teleporting before stuff finishes is not good
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: pretty much insures you will experience something strange
[11:31] Dahlia Trimble: teleporting before your attachments rez isnt too good either
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi whispers: ya especially with HG
[11:31] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: I can (and will have to) live with this today ;-)
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: another thing to do Sheera
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: keep your outfit in your suitcase
[11:31] Nebadon Izumi: if you are a heavy HG traveler
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: always keep your entire appearance folder in your suitcase
[11:32] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: will do :-)
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: having it outside of suitcase cuts you off from access once you leave home grid
[11:32] Cero Mach is Online
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: really anything you need
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: AO etc..
[11:32] paulie Flomar is Online
[11:33] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: but it's not my attachments... I can't see you Neb i.e. only a medaillon you're wearing
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: ah
[11:33] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: And RiRa is looking funny too ;-)
[11:33] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: neb, the hovering medallion lol
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: how about now?
[11:33] Nebadon Izumi: i reattached
[11:33] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: much much better now
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: that might have been my fault
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: logging in here with clear cache during a meeting
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: not a great idea
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but i wanted to see how the region responded
[11:34] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: ok, so nothing really serious about the new version - phew :-)
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: I just saw a bunch of red on console from you Alicia
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: where you trying to access inventory?
[11:36] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: nope?
[11:36] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: what was it saying?
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: 18:36:22 -
[INVENTORY]: Failed to process queued inventory request 013e589a-cf28-484e-afa2-afc9d48635f8 for Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk in Wright Plaza. Exception System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object

at OpenSim.Capabilities.Handlers.FetchInvDescHandler.BadFolder (OpenSim.Framework.Capabilities.LLSDFetchInventoryDescendents freq, OpenSim.Framework.InventoryCollection contents, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 bad_folders) 
 [0x00019] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Capabilities/Handlers/FetchInventoryDescendents/FetchInvDescHandler.cs:636
at OpenSim.Capabilities.Handlers.FetchInvDescHandler.Fetch (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 fetchFolders, System.Collections.Generic.List`1 bad_folders) 
 [0x000e9] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Capabilities/Handlers/FetchInventoryDescendents/FetchInvDescHandler.cs:612
at OpenSim.Capabilities.Handlers.FetchInvDescHandler.FetchInventoryDescendentsRequest (System.String requ

[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: System.String param, IOSHttpRequest httpRequest, IOSHttpResponse httpResponse)
[0x0016b] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Capabilities/Handlers/FetchInventoryDescendents/FetchInvDescHandler.cs:120

at OpenSim.Region.ClientStack.Linden.WebFetchInvDescModule+PollServiceInventoryEventArgs.Process (OpenSim.Region.ClientStack.Linden.aPollRequest requestinfo) 
 [0x00081] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Region/ClientStack/Linden/Caps/WebFetchInvDescModule.cs:364
at OpenSim.Region.ClientStack.Linden.WebFetchInvDescModule.WaitProcessQueuedInventoryRequest () 
 [0x00026] in /home/osgrid/PLAZA/wright_plaza/OpenSim/Region/ClientStack/Linden/Caps/WebFetchInvDescModule.cs:448

[11:37] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: hmm, that error i have seen before
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: maybe trying to access something outside of your suitcase
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: dunno
[11:37] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that is often a script inside something you're wearing
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: I see a lot of them though
[11:37] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: i think it could be because i had a clear cache before i came, maybe didnt wait long enough before i tp'd here
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: yep
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: thats it
[11:37] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: nope, i wasnt doing anything
[11:37] Nebadon Izumi: diva is probably going to implement new block
[11:38] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: same with me then ...
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: that will not let you HG teleport if you inventory is still downloading
[11:38] Nebadon Izumi: hopefully she can do that I think that would be good thing
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: prevent some console spew
[11:39] Cuteulala Artis is Offline
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: doesnt seem to be effecting performance
[11:39] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: as long as it's reporting accurately....
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: just noisy mostly
[11:39] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: makes sense, i hadnt noticed it before
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: before divas invnetory refactor
[11:39] Nebadon Izumi: this problem could have cause major issues here
[11:39] Cuteulala Artis is Online
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: cause it would eat up threads
[11:40] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: what timezone is PDT ?
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: California
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: Pacific
[11:40] Sheera.Khan @hypergrid.org:8002: Pacific Daylight Saving Time
[11:40] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: = grid time usually
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: but what timezone ? windows only show TC to set extra clock
[11:41] Dahlia Trimble: good choice for grid time :)
[11:41] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: central time -6 ?
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: PDT = GMT-9
[11:41] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: the last virtual world i used had their clocks set to middle of the atlantic, half way between US and Europe
[11:41] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: er...-8 sprry
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i like that idea
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: make sure everyone is equally confused
[11:42] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: aha i se pacific. thanks
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: equal rights for all!
[11:42] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: lol
[11:42] Dahlia Trimble: pffft. That's no fun :P
[11:43] Nebadon Izumi: Star Date 4609.4
[11:43] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: wouldn't the only meaningful one be relativity-corrected seconds since the big Bang?
[11:43] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: uhmm i dont know if your stardate is correct nebadon
[11:44] OtakuMegane Desu: The current star date would be negative lol
[11:44] Andrew Hellershanks thinks it is missing a digit
[11:45] Nebadon Izumi: any other issues anyone wanted to discuss?
[11:45] Cuteulala Artis: we need a region size 3d printer in 3d to 3d build our sims :P
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:46] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: the sigsegv some people are getting could be linked to a crash i had this morning, i have the error msg this time tho
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: it would be cool to be able to 3d print a region
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: but man after exploring 3D printing
[11:46] Nebadon Izumi: that would be insanely difficult right now
[11:46] Dahlia Trimble: why?
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: well for shapeways for instance the models have to be fairly clean
[11:47] Andrew Hellershanks: You might need one of the liquid based 3d printers
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I notice that after a while if a region has experience latency issues there are a lot of hug threads that cause issues (thinks like 100+ wind change threads that never get updated, etc).,....maybe some sort of console command "clear threads" so it could be fixed during run-time instead of requiring a ful simulator restart
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: though maybe that's not possible'
[11:47] Dahlia Trimble: "clean"?
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: drop
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: not to mention it would have to be lacking all textures and only be color
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: orbort
[11:47] Nebadon Izumi: then have a clean way to translate all of that
[11:47] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: take your pick of semantics
[11:48] Cuteulala Artis: Ohhhh! i ment a in world 3d printer for our sims lolol
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: yes clean as is no non-manifold geometry
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: everything has to be solid
[11:48] Nebadon Izumi: no planes
[11:48] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, I recently ran across reference to an addon for 3D printers that appears to let any plastic spool fed 3D printer print using up to 4 colours.
[11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: for example
[11:48] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: show threadpool calls active LLClientView.SendWindData  : 43 ScenePresence.SendOutChildAgentUpdates : 31 ModifyLand  : 8 HGAssetBroker.GotFromCache  : 4 J2KDecoderModule.BeginDecode  : 1 FriendsModule.StatusChange  : 1 ObjectDeselect  : 1 ObjectSelect  : 1 AvatarFactoryModule.SaveAppearance  : 1 ChatFromViewer  : 1 TOTAL NAMED  : 92 TOTAL QUEUED  : 0 TOTAL RUNNING  : 2 TOTAL ANONYMOUS  : -90 TOTAL ALL  : 2
[11:48] Dahlia Trimble: how about a voxel representation? that would be maniford
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: maybe
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: those numbers are not accurate
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: but then how do you translate colors etc..
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: after any period of time. ideally that has to be fixed at a very small cost to performance
[11:49] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: all of those are hung threads and will continue to sit there until a restart
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: it could be done, but you would have to stick to pretty strict building guidelines
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: well ya color probably wont work
[11:49] Nebadon Izumi: interiors are problematic
[11:49] Cuteulala Artis: you cabn print all in one color and pain it professionaly
[11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: they are very likely not hung - very likely those numbers are false positives
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: unless maybe it can do a few primary colors
[11:49] Cuteulala Artis: paint
[11:49] Dahlia Trimble: and it can be halftone
[11:50] Dahlia Trimble: halftoned
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: ya or just hand paint it afterwards
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: print decals
[11:50] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:50] Dahlia Trimble has a halftining patent :)
[11:50] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why not make your own build your sim kit. from small parts. make painting more easy, and printing
[11:50] Cuteulala Artis: we can use NVIDIAS instant printer hahah
[11:51] Cuteulala Artis: paint a giant section instantly
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: we should probably include some where in opensim setup notes about mono and threading
[11:51] Nebadon Izumi: and the need for setting > export MONO_THREADS_PER_CPU=2048
[11:51] Cuteulala Artis: and fix this sesire avatar movement
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: because i beleive the default is 15 threads
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I guess what I find is when I see numbers like that being reported it's also almost guaranteed the the sim is struggling with other stuff
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: and i have found I cant even teleport to a region
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: that is running the default threads
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: maybe an empty sim you can
[11:52] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: then after a full simluator restart it's usually fine again
[11:52] Nebadon Izumi: but a sim even with minimal content its just terrible
[11:52] Cuteulala Artis: Ohhhh! ya no rez haha tried to splash neb right in the face lololol
[11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: What are the thread limits under Windows?
[11:53] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: CPU catching fire
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: I think .net has much higher adaptive limit
[11:53] Nebadon Izumi: im not even sure you can manipulate that in user space on windows
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: .net will just use whatever is available
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: mono is much more strict it seams
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: since its not so great at handling large amounts of threads
[11:54] Nebadon Izumi: we don't really have a proper place to put a note like that in the current code base
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: we have BUILDING.md
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: that doesnt seem appropriate though
[11:55] Nebadon Izumi: I guess README.md
[11:56] Dahlia Trimble: maybe it can be detected and then spam the console
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: hmm
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: thats a good idea
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: since expecting people to read is a bad expectation
[11:56] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:57] Andrew Hellershanks: I was just thinking we could specify a thread limit for mono that is somewhat in line with the limits (if any) under Windows
[11:57] Dahlia Trimble: I think there's a way to tell if it's running in mono, then just search the environment for that string
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: well
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: the mono website recommends 2048
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: for heavily threaded apps
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: the default i believe is 15
[11:57] Dahlia Trimble: I use 512 which is just an arbitraty choice that seems to work
[11:57] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so for Opensim maybe 182392298 wouild be a good setting?
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: which is not enough for even a small opensim instance
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: 512 is probably enough
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: ive never really experimented
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: just went with xamarins suggestion
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: I can say though opensim runs very poorly on the defaults
[11:58] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: ist osgrid
[11:58] Cuteulala Artis: can i share a osgrid forum link here to a freebie i release?
[11:59] Alsya.Destiny @hypergrid.org:8002: hier ist OS?
[11:59] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: ja
[11:59] Dahlia Trimble: then there's all those MMOs out there that use 1 thread per cpu....
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: sure Cute
[11:59] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: freebies
[11:59] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: da ist auch ein teleporter
[11:59] Cuteulala Artis: V5.0 Of coasters released yesturday less memory and RETARDED fast cars now Ah HAHAHA... :O if u want to make a super hyper speed coaster :PP http://forums.osgrid.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5372
[12:00] Cuteulala Artis: better hope u can catch it once u start it
[12:00] Cuteulala Artis: can now go past gear 4
[12:00] Cuteulala Artis: up to 10
[12:00] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: oh..I just remembered something I wanted to ask....
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you set a sit target for an object (even just a tiny one) you can sit on it from anywheren in the region....if you don't, you can only sit on it from 10m away or less....is that intended?
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: here is where mono suggests
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: http://www.mono-project.com/archived/articlethreadpool_deadlocks/
[12:01] Cuteulala Artis: how is my missles exploading if they never fired
[12:01] Nebadon Izumi: its actually 2000 they suggest
[12:01] Dahlia Trimble: Aine, I think SL does that also
[12:01] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: hier sind viele in der nähe
[12:01] Alsya.Destiny @hypergrid.org:8002: ich muss nach craft
[12:01] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I was just curious if there was a *reason* for it that I couldn't think of
[12:02] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: gibt hier auch hypergate
[12:02] Alsya.Destiny @hypergrid.org:8002: wo
[12:02] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: if you set click action touch it's not enough...you have to actually set a non-ZERO_VECTOR target
[12:02] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: weiss nicht
[12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Aine, interesting "bug"(?)
[12:02] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: muss aber hier sein
[12:02] Nebadon Izumi: I think in SL though it will walk you to the object
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: of your further away?
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: i cant remember
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not sure
[12:03] ladyjo martin is Online
[12:03] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: target has to be non zero vector in sl i think also
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya its been a while since ive say on anything no scripted in SL
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: say=sat*
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I tested it in my own region and can sit on it from even 5000m away if it has a target
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: same in SL
[12:03] Dahlia Trimble: I dont think it's a bug
[12:03] Nebadon Izumi: that is not a bug
[12:03] Cero Mach is Offline
[12:03] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: yeah...
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: its actually quite handy
[12:04] Andrew Hellershanks: ok, if not a bug, a strange feature?
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: was more wondering if maybe an object set to "sit" could have the same behaviour
[12:04] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: or is that handled viewer-side?
[12:04] Dahlia Trimble: maybe something to do with a sit exploit or whatnot
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: I think non scripted sit uses a raycast
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: thats why ours doesnt work well
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: why you dont sit properly
[12:04] Bernhard.McIntyre @hypergrid.org:8002: Hallo Bernhard, hier findet gerade ein Treffen der Entwickler und einiger Benutzer der OpenSimulator-Software statt :-)
[12:03] Sheera Khan: also kein Grund zur Beunruhigung
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: so there may be limitations to accuracy with raycast
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: if your to far
[12:05] Alsya.Destiny @hypergrid.org:8002: sorry
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: walls etc..
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 nods
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: the limit may be low to reduce the effects of barriers to the raycast
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: while not perfect im sure its much higher chance if the object is line of site
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: sight*
[12:05] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: I see...and when there's a sit target it just skips that?
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: right
[12:06] Nebadon Izumi: when there is no target specified we have to calculate angle of approach etc..
[12:06] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: could a code adjustment allow the sit-target type behaviour globally or is it the viewer that makes that decision?
[12:07] Dahlia Trimble: dont know
[12:08] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: okies...was mostly just curious about it
[12:08] Cuteulala Artis: just out of curiosity
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: I suspect those protocols are hard coded into the viewer
[12:08] Cuteulala Artis: But Why? havent we started using the osgrid welcome station as the new lbsa
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: not something we could just over ride on the simulator side
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: not fully anyway
[12:09] Cuteulala Artis: lbsa plaza is getting old and old to see lolol
[12:09] Dahlia Trimble: I like the welcom station, it's nicely done :)
[12:09] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen a mention of "raycast" in the last few days. Can someone explain what that is in term of OS? For me I think or raycasting as part of a technique to do 3D rendering of objects.
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: Cuteulala talk with Dan and Key
[12:09] Cuteulala Artis: its 1000 times better then lbsa
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: I will leave that decision to them
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: however I am fine with updating it
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: as long as its not to drastic
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: I like that particular layout
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: but i agree it could use some updating
[12:10] Cuteulala Artis: its more professional
[12:10] Cuteulala Artis: for noobs
[12:10] Dahlia Trimble: Andrew, there's been some recent patches to improve llCastRay()
[12:10] Cuteulala Artis: then lbsa
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya Lbsa is more iconic than anything at this point
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: I am not against updating it though
[12:10] Andrew Hellershanks: Dahlia, That would be why I've seen recent references to it in OS.
[12:11] Cuteulala Artis: send Me? the oar and ill put in halo with capture the flag mayhamm lolol
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: Dahlia there is another patch
[12:11] Cuteulala Artis: hehe
[12:11] Cuteulala Artis: hehehe
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: have you seen it?
[12:11] Dahlia Trimble: essentially a raycast is like drawing a line from one point to another in 3d space and noting whatever it intersects
[12:11] Kayaker Magic: But there has been too much discussioin about keeping the old broken llCastRay! I say throw out the bad lLCastRay!
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: its supposed to be a lot faster
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: a v3 patch
[12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's usred for targeting systems in weapons scripts
[12:11] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: why keep old noty compatible one in. throw it away.
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: however It was a bit above my head so I didnt want to just commit it
[12:11] Cuteulala Artis: we want fixed castray so i can program a giant spider vehicle
[12:11] Nebadon Izumi: without others looking at it first
[12:11] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: think it has that name because it sort of does the same kind of thing as raycasting in rendering does
[12:12] Kayaker Magic: Consider this: BulletSim doesn't work for bullets, so we have to use llCastRay and the current one is borked.
[12:12] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it tries to draw a straight line and figure out the first intersection point
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7546
[12:12] Kayaker Magic: So there is NOTHING that works right for weapons at the moment.
[12:12] Cuteulala Artis: um
[12:12] Cuteulala Artis: my weapons work!
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: Kayaker have you tried v2?
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: its not enabled by default I dont think
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: trying to remember what is needed now
[12:13] Cuteulala Artis: i been making missle launching planes and nukes dropers with push and rocket launchers and bows
[12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: it's a new ini setting
[12:13] Dahlia Trimble: good way to kill a sim is to do a bunch of raycasts in rapid succession (like firing weapons)
[12:13] UUID Speaker: Alsya Destiny: a6d1d94a-38ca-48cd-a53f-c604e37dcce6
[12:13] mattie mcbride is Online
[12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: see: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=7546
[12:13] Cuteulala Artis: to bad no rez hahaha
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi:
[LL-Functions]
[12:13] Kayaker Magic: I have a bunch of weapons that work, but they get llCastRay hits on bounding boxes, and hit on physics type none objects they should fly through.
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: UseLlCastRayV1 = false
[12:13] Nebadon Izumi: in OpenSim.ini
[12:13] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: that has Magnuz's notes on it
[12:13] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: NWrites note: don't start a war with cutuelala :)
[12:14] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: not sure if anyone has documented it in the wiki
[12:14] Cuteulala Artis: ya i want to unleash a few rockets in here so bad hahaahh
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: ya our llCastRay is still very incomplete
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: even v2
[12:14] Andrew Hellershanks: I have a snowball thrower that works well in tossing snowballs at distant targets. I don't think it used llCastRay
[12:14] Dahlia Trimble: what doesn't work about physical bullets in BulletSim?
[12:14] Nebadon Izumi: there is a v3 patch that I havent tested yet
[12:15] Kayaker Magic: physical bullets do not generate collisions properly
[12:15] Cuteulala Artis: idk my bullets are physical and they fire perfectly and blow up on collision with acasionaly they bounce of objects before they expload
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: i believe v2 is basically ported from Aurora and V3 is a completely new OpenSim implementation
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: v4 will hopefully be native bullem raycasting
[12:15] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: bulletsim doesnt always register in the script that the bullet has hit something, even tho it will bounce off
[12:15] Nebadon Izumi: bullet*
[12:16] Cuteulala Artis: ya i noticed a few times my rockets hit things and bounce off the walls
[12:16] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002 dreams of the day that clothSim v1 is added
[12:16] Andrew Hellershanks: I've seen that with my snowball thrower, Alicia
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: thats Dudsim v1.0
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: :P
[12:16] Nebadon Izumi: bad trigger switche simulator
[12:16] ladyjo martin is Online
[12:16] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.8.2.0 Dev adf0f49: 2015-05-09 08:58:59 -0700 (Unix/Mono)
[12:16] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: the physics is ok, just doesnt always trigger the lsl event, maybe its xengine thats at fault
[12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: yup. lsl events can be disaster.
[12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: same with sensors etc.
[12:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: so much depends on what other stuff XEngine is doing
[12:17] Richardus.Raymaker @hypergrid.org:8002: i think it's better now, but still not 100% sure
[12:17] Nebadon Izumi: ya event timing is not reliable enough for weapons probably
[12:17] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: event triggering in a timely, predictable way is non-existent
[12:17] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: for spell casting we had to use round balls against round targets, then they dont bounce off and eventually the event gets fired (in most cases)
[12:17] Cuteulala Artis: if i won the lotta
[12:18] Cuteulala Artis: id invest a few mill on opensim
[12:18] Justin Clark-Casey: they is why you aren't rich, Cute :)
[12:18] Kayaker Magic: I've had physical bullets skitter around on the terrain for minutes without generating any collisions with the terrain.
[12:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: lol
[12:18] Dahlia Trimble: bye all :)
[12:18] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: bye Dahlia...have a good week
[12:18] Nebadon Izumi: see ya Dahlia
[12:18] Andrew Hellershanks: Bye, Dahlia
[12:18] Alicia.Raven @grid.spellscape.co.uk: c y dahlia
[12:18] Cuteulala Artis: noooooo
[12:19] Cuteulala Artis: dont go
[12:19] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:19] Cuteulala Artis: just cause u a dev dont run!!!!
[12:19] Aine.Caoimhe @refugegrid.com:8002: actually, I should be on my way too