Chat log from the meeting on 2013-02-26

10:56] dan banner: hi everyone
10:56] Nebadon Izumi: hello
10:56] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hello
10:56] Master Dubrovna: Hello
10:56] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn smiles. :)
10:57] Nebadon Izumi: ok brb afk a few moments
10:58] dj phil: hello dan
10:58] dan banner: hi
10:59] Robert Adams: I'll brb also... need more diet mtn dew
11:00] Nebadon Izumi: back
11:00] anivil finesmith: hi vivi
11:00] Kahn Khalim: wb
11:01] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: wb
11:02] Nebadon Izumi: we sort of have jumping in BulletSim now
11:02] Nebadon Izumi: its not quite 100% right
11:02] Nebadon Izumi: you have to hold the pg up button a little longer than normal
11:03] Nebadon Izumi: that will get fixed eventually
11:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: feet go into the floor a little on the bounce
11:03] Nebadon Izumi: anyone have anything they wanted to talk about?
11:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: wqalking around they're pretty close
11:04] Nebadon Izumi: ya i wold not go by this avatar
11:04] Nebadon Izumi: as neat as this avatar is, i would not call the rigging expert work
11:04] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
11:04] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yeah, I guess things get aligned differently with those?
11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya
11:05] Nebadon Izumi: its tricky to get it right
11:05] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: does the body physics work with it?
11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hmm
11:05] Marcus Llewellyn: It sorta depends on a few factors... hip z offset, the animations activated, the way the mesh is weighted...
11:05] dan banner: not to mention rabbits are good at jumping
11:05] Andrew HellershanksAndrew Hellershanks waves hello
11:05] Nebadon Izumi: probably not real good
11:05] Nebadon Izumi: hello Andrew
11:06] Kahn Khalim: hi andy
11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hi andrew
11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya watch what happens when i sit
11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: haha
11:06] Nebadon Izumi: not good
11:06] Nebadon Izumi: lol
11:06] Jalen Optera: that bunny could benefit from sl style butt physics
11:06] Nebadon Izumi: why im standing
11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i don't know how to really improve the rig
11:06] Nebadon Izumi: or I would
11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi justin
11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm back on my desktop as I got the new power supply last Thursday. I'm also on a new Linux distro. I've switched from an end of life version of Ubuntu to the latest Linux Mint.
11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: hi folks
11:06] Nebadon Izumi: jello
11:06] Nebadon Izumi: :P
11:06] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hehe
11:06] dan banner: heya justin
11:06] Marcus Llewellyn: If Qarl's deformer every gets release, butt physics would work on it. In SL anyway... not here.
11:07] Nebadon Izumi: heh
11:07] Kahn Khalim: hey JCC
11:07] Nebadon Izumi: ya it seems unlikely that Qarls deformer will ever make it to an official viewer
11:07] Nebadon Izumi: hard to say
11:07] Nebadon Izumi: what a waste
11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: are TPV picking it up?
11:07] Nebadon Izumi: probably not allowed to
11:07] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: shhh
11:07] Nebadon Izumi: because of TPV rules
11:07] Marcus Llewellyn: Some have in an experimental way, but mostly smaller one dev ones.
11:08] Nebadon Izumi: the old, if LL doesnt do it first your evil spawn of satan rule
11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yeah
11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that's why we need to leave them in the dust
11:08] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: :)
11:08] Nebadon Izumi: ya i just hope we can see a new Firestorm OpenSim viewer soon
11:08] Nebadon Izumi: it sounds like its getting pushed back
11:08] Marcus Llewellyn: To be fair, the deformer was in a tremendous state of change for quite a while. I can see them not wanting creators getting to attached to bad behavior from it.
11:08] Nebadon Izumi: because of changes in the LL grid
11:09] Nebadon Izumi: the server side baking
11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ohh
11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: SSB it on LL's front burner for sure.
11:09] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ezbake
11:09] Marcus Llewellyn: Followed quickly by materials, it soundsl ike.
11:10] Nebadon Izumi: it might be a while before we see a new firestorm
11:10] Nebadon Izumi: right
11:10] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: materials should be a whole lot better than the shiney settings we have now
11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya
11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ive seen some impressive screenshots
11:10] Marcus Llewellyn: I think we will see a new Firestorm... they might not have a choice if LL turns on SSB on the main grid. But it will not be the most stable one ever.
11:10] Nebadon Izumi: what is cool too
11:10] Nebadon Izumi: filterforge offers that stuff
11:10] Nebadon Izumi: with their texture library
11:10] Nebadon Izumi: http://filterforge.com/filters
11:11] Nebadon Izumi: lots of cool stuff there to try out
11:11] Nebadon Izumi: see how it works
11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: woah
11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: Specular maps will blow current shiney out of the water. Heck, it will let you *make* water, just like our oceans.
11:11] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that would be nice to have
11:11] Andrew Hellershanks: ooh... could it make proper mirrors?
11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ya it sounds like Windlight Clouds are going to support that stuff also
11:11] Justin Clark-Casey: I would have thought LL wouldn't turn on SSB and then immediately yank client side baking
11:11] Marcus Llewellyn: That I don't know... I don't think it works that way, though.
11:11] Nebadon Izumi: so expect the skies to change a lot too
11:12] Nebadon Izumi: ya that probably will happen
11:12] Dahlia Trimble: hi
11:12] Nebadon Izumi: so I really do not know what that means for the TPVs
11:12] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Hi Dahlia
11:12] Marcus Llewellyn: My understanding is that there's a region CAP or something, and that the viewer (at least TPVs) will retain old bake code, and be able to use whichever is appropriate.
11:12] Nebadon Izumi: from my understanding
11:12] Kahn Khalim: if you login with a non SSB viewer, you will see all white
11:12] Nebadon Izumi: if you dont have a SSB viewer
11:12] Nebadon Izumi: you wont see any textures on avatar
11:13] Nebadon Izumi: you get a white avatar with warning message repeating over and over
11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahlia
11:13] Marcus Llewellyn: On the LL grid, yes. SSB is all or nothing.
11:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya
11:13] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: like the old nude avatar skin probably
11:13] Justin Clark-Casey: is that what LL are saying?
11:13] Nebadon Izumi: if LL eventually pulls that out of the viewer code, that could get difficult to maintain
11:14] Marcus Llewellyn: Yes. Someone asked why they weren't testing on main in just a few region. Nyx Linden (I think) said it had to be turned on for the whole grid, or not at all, as it is designed right now.
11:14] Nebadon Izumi: yea its basically all or nothing in LL when the switch gets flipped
11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: I think Dahlia said previously that it wouldn't be too difficult to do server side baking in opensim
11:14] Nebadon Izumi: basically all old viewers will not work anymore
11:14] Nebadon Izumi: you can log in but wont see any avatars
11:14] Dahlia Trimble: there is some baking code in libomv
11:14] Justin Clark-Casey: opensim woul dhave to support both client and server side baking. I hope that doesn't turn out to be impossible for some reason
11:14] Dahlia Trimble: it doesnt do texture-less skins tho
11:15] Nebadon Izumi: ya hard to say Justin
11:15] Nebadon Izumi: I am sure its not technical reasons in SL
11:15] Nebadon Izumi: they want everyone off old viewers
11:15] Nebadon Izumi: they are not going out of their way
11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: this would bump people off very recent viewers though
11:16] Dahlia Trimble: the problem with texture-less skins is they are extremely complex and nobody wears them anyway... except maybe Justin ;)
11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: it's not like making the old version 1 viewers incompatible
11:16] Nebadon Izumi: ya
11:16] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: me and the n00bs :)
11:16] Nebadon Izumi: thats what they want
11:16] Nebadon Izumi: everyone on mesh/materials/ssb viewers
11:16] Dahlia Trimble: noobs wear ruth
11:16] Nebadon Izumi: they said this was going to happen over a year ago
11:17] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: so, we could put some nice noob skins in core to fix that?
11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, these timetables practically always slip badly
11:17] Marcus Llewellyn: Here, it would be nice of sim-ops can run their own SSB baking services, letting us offload that from OSGrid.
11:17] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yes, could make the default 'ruth' wear something like that.
11:17] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that would be nice
11:17] OtakuMegane Desu: If it is very recent viewers, I would assume they'd simply update though like with anything else coming down the pipe.
11:17] Nebadon Izumi: my guess is on opensim
11:17] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: Marcus, we'll have to plumb it into HG
11:17] Nebadon Izumi: the simulators would do the SSB
11:17] Nebadon Izumi: now robust
11:18] Marcus Llewellyn: Argh HG. :P hehe
11:18] Nebadon Izumi: now=not
11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hmmm, maybe so
11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: hopefully it could be a service which could be deployed either on sim or remotely
11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that would distribute the load a lot
11:18] OtakuMegane Desu: Yeah, I don't see any reason the simulators couldn't do SSB. Doesn't seem like it'd make sense to offload it
11:18] Nebadon Izumi: if simulators do it
11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++ justin
11:18] Nebadon Izumi: then HG should not be a problem
11:18] Nebadon Izumi: simulators just fetch assets from remote grid
11:18] Justin Clark-Casey: otaku: it's nice to try and keep the load off the simulators though
11:18] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: they woujld just have to get the assets from the user's home world
11:19] Marcus Llewellyn: LL is having a completely dedicated service for baking, that also incorporates outfit caching. So that's what they're designing the viewer around. Dunno how that bodes for alternatives.
11:19] OtakuMegane Desu: How much of a load would it add, though?
11:19] Dahlia Trimble: I think it would be easy to implement as a region module since most of the code is already there but it might be pretty CPU heavy
11:19] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: could it be made lighter, Dahlia?
11:19] Dahlia Trimble: C# is not good at image processing
11:19] Nebadon Izumi: would it really be any heavier than some of the OSSL drawing stuff?
11:20] Marcus Llewellyn: It would just be a bit spikey, wouldn't it? On avatar arrival, or a change of outfits.
11:20] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe make it with c++ and use pinvoke to interface to it?
11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: yes could be. What we probably need to do is cache appearances better
11:21] Dahlia Trimble: it does a lot of pixelwise operations and uses .net collections to do it
11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: rather than this situation by default atm where you keep having to rebake when travelling to different regions
11:21] Justin Clark-Casey: simulators rather
11:21] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah... caching is what LL intends to do, I understand.
11:21] Dahlia Trimble: so its pretty slow compared to something in c
11:21] OtakuMegane Desu: Caching is good
11:21] Robert Adams: sounds like a new robust service
11:22] Dahlia Trimble: LL sims pass baked textures around, I dont think opensim does
11:22] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe we could send the baked image data along with the user's other data when moging to another region?
11:22] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ++ Dahlia
11:22] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: moving*
11:22] Justin Clark-Casey: that would make region crossings worse, I suspect, unless there was a more compilcated exchange where that part was done asynchronously
11:22] Dahlia Trimble: or maybe a special asset class that expires or something
11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes. I assume that's done centrally in some way rather than passing between sims
11:23] Robert Adams: is there a new cap for doing the server side textures? how does the viewer know where to go for the baked textures?
11:23] Dahlia Trimble: no LL passes them around between sims
11:23] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I think makeing a hybrid controler that acts like megaregions when a user moves into a new region would be cool
11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: there are temporary assets but that might require a more complicated asset service to expire out of date temporary stuff
11:23] Marcus Llewellyn: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Project_Sunshine-Server_Side_Appearance
11:23] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: ok, interesting
11:23] Nebadon Izumi: why cant the simulator just pass it
11:23] Nebadon Izumi: during the teleport
11:23] Nebadon Izumi: the baked asset
11:23] Dahlia Trimble: I thought temp assets were sim-local?
11:23] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it passes a lot of stuff now
11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yes
11:24] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: they are, yes
11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: if they are going sim to sim then I guess you dont' need to pass them up to the asset service
11:24] Nebadon Izumi: right
11:24] Nebadon Izumi: that would be wasteful
11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: the case that more concerns me is region crossing
11:24] Nebadon Izumi: though
11:24] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: we have that "fat pipe" for about a year now to pass data
11:24] Dahlia Trimble: assuming sim-sim is reliable
11:24] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: "fatpack"
11:24] Nebadon Izumi: we would then need to pass it to child avatars?
11:24] Justin Clark-Casey: it doesn't pass things the size of textures though
11:24] Nebadon Izumi: since its not a grid wide asset
11:24] Nebadon Izumi: ?
11:25] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: how about child sims?
11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: no
11:25] Dahlia Trimble: I wouldnt want to see it slow down border crossings tho
11:25] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it would need to pass those across to them?
11:25] Robert Adams: SL has added a lot of sim-sim passing... like the edges of terrain to make crossing better
11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, you would need to pass it asynchrnously, after the crossing itself had taken place
11:25] Justin Clark-Casey: or you could pre-pass it to neighbours - perhaps that's what you were saying, neb
11:26] Justin Clark-Casey: robert: interesting - I didn't know that
11:26] OtakuMegane Desu: >SL >sim crossing better
11:26] OtakuMegane Desu: *snrk*
11:26] dan banner: heh
11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: I was very surprised recently to find that baked avatars did not properly cross regions when they were on different simulators
11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: Am I right in thinking this worked in the past or is this one of those things everybody knows is broken so never talks about?
11:27] Dahlia Trimble: I thought they just rebaked when the crossed?
11:27] Nebadon Izumi: hmm not sure
11:27] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: that's what I thought, but this is not being triggered
11:27] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I don't remember issues with it from the 0.6.9 days
11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: the viewer is not re-asking for the appearance data after crossing
11:28] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that is the thing going round the opensim-users list?
11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: which is what triggers the rebake
11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: yes
11:28] Dahlia Trimble: oh maybe it has to wait for another viewer to request the asset?
11:28] Simulator Version v0.5 shouts: OpenSim 0.7.6 Dev 2b53f08: 2013-02-25 21:58:00 -0800 (Unix/Mono)
11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: it isn't riggered that way
11:28] Justin Clark-Casey: triggered
11:28] Dahlia Trimble: oh
11:29] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: is there a message we're missing on the new avatar?
11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: it's triggered by the viewer saying this are my baked texture UUIDs
11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: then the simulator searching for those assets, not finding them and requesting the rebake
11:29] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: I was able to replicate this on LL 1.23.5
11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: I dunno, maybe there is something complicated going on. Need t ocheck what was happening on 0.7.4
11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, are we doing somethng with child agents?
11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: what do you mean?
11:30] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: also, could it be related to avatar imposters - is that the right word?
11:30] Justin Clark-Casey: yes and no
11:31] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe doing something as a child agent that doesn't get done when upgrading to root.
11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: no, tjhat is not how it works
11:31] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok
11:31] Dahlia Trimble: ya what happens now for child agents? what would someone looking in from another sim see?
11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: if you want to step through the flows I have documneted them somewhat at http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Appearance_Troubleshooting#Steps
11:31] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: thanks jcc
11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: a cloud, because the baked textures are not present
11:31] Justin Clark-Casey: On teleport it all works fine
11:32] Dahlia Trimble: sounds like there are a lot of missing pieces
11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: it's never been a complete solution
11:32] Justin Clark-Casey: especially with forcing avatars to keep rebaking on regio ntransfer
11:33] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I remember in 0.6.9 having issues with texture decoding sometimes.
11:33] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: if one didn't get all layers decoded, the avatgar wouldn't rez
11:33] dj phil: Bye bye all :)
11:33] Nebadon Izumi: i remember there being some baking issues because of KDU vs OpenJPeg
11:33] Justin Clark-Casey: bye djphil
11:33] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: see ya phil
11:33] Dahlia Trimble: bye
11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, these are all orthogonal
11:34] Nebadon Izumi: but i also remember those same kinds of issues in SL too
11:34] Nebadon Izumi: client side baking is to inconsistent
11:34] Justin Clark-Casey: This is w ty they are going to ssb right?
11:34] Nebadon Izumi: ya
11:34] Nebadon Izumi: the drivers you run
11:35] Nebadon Izumi: can make a huge difference
11:35] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: makes sense
11:35] Nebadon Izumi: its like supporting 1000 different video cards
11:35] Nebadon Izumi: with 100 different driver sets
11:35] Nebadon Izumi: or support 1 server side system
11:35] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
11:35] Nebadon Izumi: its really not even a choice
11:35] Robert Adams: exactly Nebadon... I'll finally be able to run viewers on secondsary monitors :)
11:36] Nebadon Izumi: ya gawd
11:36] Nebadon Izumi: that problem
11:36] Nebadon Izumi: thats been around since 20060
11:36] Nebadon Izumi: 2006*
11:36] Nebadon Izumi: i remember in SL being stuck as a completely black avatar head to toe
11:36] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: is that why justin's avatar used to be made of anitmatter
11:36] Nebadon Izumi: LL tech support kept telling me to clear my cache
11:36] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
11:36] Marcus Llewellyn: MISSING TEXTURE :)
11:36] Nebadon Izumi: turned out it was becasue of second monitor
11:37] Dahlia Trimble: there are reliable ways to do off-screen rendering in opengl but apparently LL didnt want to go that route
11:37] Nebadon Izumi: that one drove me nuts for a while
11:38] Nebadon Izumi: something i keep seeing lately
11:38] Nebadon Izumi: whenever i teleport
11:38] Nebadon Izumi: people say I am invisible
11:38] Nebadon Izumi: i have to detach my bunny mesh
11:38] Nebadon Izumi: and reattach it
11:38] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: hmm
11:39] Nebadon Izumi: seems like a problem with mesh avatars only
11:39] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: how about the ghost avatar issue?
11:39] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: any news on that?
11:39] Nebadon Izumi: dan?
11:39] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yeah
11:39] Nebadon Izumi: last I heard some co-op setting was helping
11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: Rigged mesh not rezzing is a known viewer bug.
11:39] Nebadon Izumi: oh not just opensimulator?
11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: Nope.
11:39] Nebadon Izumi: happens in SL too?
11:39] Marcus Llewellyn: LL to
11:39] dan banner: yes?
11:39] Nebadon Izumi: ah ok
11:39] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, then they're not releated then
11:39] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: the ghost avatars
11:40] Nebadon Izumi: Bluewall was asking about the ghost avatars
11:40] Dahlia Trimble: Robert is bullet currently supported on 32-bit linux?
11:40] Nebadon Izumi: dahlia it should be yes
11:40] dan banner: yes so far i have not seen a ghosted avatar on the sims using co-op
11:40] Nebadon Izumi: great
11:40] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: cool
11:40] Dahlia Trimble: I get an exception and crash at startup
11:40] Marcus Llewellyn: I love being mesh, because I never have to rebake. But the occasional reattach is sometimes necessary.
11:40] Nebadon Izumi: wonder what happened to Justin
11:40] Dahlia Trimble: guess I should mantis it
11:40] Robert Adams: Dahlia, should be although I do all my testing on 64bit
11:40] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: that elephant lost one of it's limbs that day
11:40] Dahlia Trimble: ya 64 works for me
11:41] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: maybe that was some part of the issue and was hanging threads
11:41] Kahn Khalim: JCC crash?
11:41] Robert Adams: there have been some problems with SO dependencies... could be the 32 bit system has older or newer libraries
11:41] Nebadon Izumi: his net must of went out
11:41] Nebadon Izumi: he went off skype at same moment
11:41] Kahn Khalim: hh
11:41] dan banner: he ack'd out
11:41] Kahn Khalim: ahh
11:41] Dahlia Trimble: it used to work on the same system a few months ago
11:42] Nebadon Izumi: I have not tested bulletsim on 32 bit anything
11:42] Kahn Khalim: lol@dan
11:42] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I ahve to take off for a bit - afk for 15
11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: windows xp blue-screened on me
11:42] Nebadon Izumi: ouch
11:42] dan banner: wb justin
11:42] Robert Adams: 32bit is soooooo last year
11:42] Kahn Khalim: lol wb JCC
11:42] Dahlia Trimble: still using xp? lol
11:42] Justin Clark-Casey: it cam with my laptop and I'm too cheap to upgrade :)
11:42] Dahlia Trimble: well my intel cpu is only 32 bit :(
11:42] Nebadon Izumi: hey its good enough for NASA
11:42] Nebadon Izumi: lol
11:42] dan banner: heh
11:42] Nebadon Izumi: i still laught at the recent rocket launches
11:42] Nebadon Izumi: all the machines are XP
11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: I would just run linux on it but sometimes I need a windows box
11:43] Nebadon Izumi: virtualbox
11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: not good for opengl
11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ah
11:43] Nebadon Izumi: thats true
11:43] Justin Clark-Casey: or directx, etc.
11:43] Nebadon Izumi: ya it does support opengl
11:43] Nebadon Izumi: but not good
11:43] Nebadon Izumi: you get like 5fps in viewer
11:44] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: justin, dan says that the threading fix you maded seems to have cleared up the ghosted avatars
11:44] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn would kill for something like PCI passthrough in virtualbox.
11:44] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: *made
11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: that's good to know. I will make it the default soon but I need to think about how to migrate as it requires that clearout of the old dlls
11:44] Nebadon Izumi: it should be possible Marcus, I think KVM and Xen can do it
11:44] Marcus Llewellyn: Yeah, they both do.
11:44] Justin Clark-Casey: if that's not done things will still work, but the pre-change DLLs will not get stopped if they misbehave
11:44] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: yeah, it will hang some scripts that need perms
11:45] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: ok, back in a few
11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: what do you mean?
11:45] Justin Clark-Casey: oh, don't worry
11:46] Justin Clark-Casey: any other opensim topics today?
11:46] dan banner: justin: that bug where people copying your objects sends a copy to them and back you with them as owner seems to be back
11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: that's odd - don't think there have been any changes in that area
11:47] dan banner: not sure when it started
11:47] Justin Clark-Casey: though tbh, I don't remember any changes from the last time that was talked about
11:47] dan banner: ya ive had a few people mention this that leave things on sandbox plaza
11:48] dan banner: http://imagebin.org/248169
11:48] dan banner: i remember it was fixed for a while
11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: dan: is there a mantis for this?
11:49] dan banner: no i havent had a chance to open one yet
11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, it would be good if you could and put the details in there
11:49] Justin Clark-Casey: need to track this properly
11:49] dan banner: sure
11:50] Justin Clark-Casey: thanks
11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: any other topics?
11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: yes
11:51] Andrew Hellershanks: How is the new groups code workingout?
11:51] Justin Clark-Casey: I haven't had a chance to look yet, though I see Crista has been ironing out some bugs
11:51] Server: Your 4 objects were returned from <115.583, 127.7174, 23.33268> in region BulletSim due to parcel autoreturn
11:52] Andrew Hellershanks: I haven't had a chance to check it out yet as I'm finishing up my move to Linux Mint.
11:52] Justin Clark-Casey: so you finally foudn that perfect power supply, eh?
11:53] Kahn Khalim: I gotta split! seeya all next time!
11:53] Justin Clark-Casey: bye kahn
11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: Yup. I paid more than I wanted to but I went with a modular supply which was a good thing. I wouldn't have had room for all the cables of the non-modular supplies.
11:53] Andrew Hellershanks: I didn't need any of the extra (optional) cables
11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: I was able to move my plug-in cards around to get better air flow around the video card and the cabling of the new supply has also improved air flow inside the box.
11:54] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm going to get back to some OS stuff soon.
11:55] Nebadon Izumi: nice
11:56] Andrew Hellershanks whispers: The new supply (Corsair TX650M) was only 1" deeper than my original one.
11:56] Andrew Hellershanks: If the changes for the new groups code isn't that extensive I may see if it can be backported to 075
11:57] Sarah Kline: byes
11:57] Justin Clark-Casey: bye sarah
11:58] Andrew Hellershanks: Are the database changes for the new groups system minor vs. flotsam groups?
11:58] Nebadon Izumi: its probably very different
11:58] Nebadon Izumi: would be my guess
11:58] Justin Clark-Casey: I don't know. I think Diva said they could be ported but it's not completely trivial
11:58] Nebadon Izumi: that would be cool
11:58] Marcus Llewellyn: I think diva said on the mailing list that the DBs were different, but that the data was largely the same, making migration possible.
11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: I still think there are advantages to flotsam, etc. because they run on Apache, which is very probably significant more efficient than robust
11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: though I think Crista's version implements things that flotasm doesn't have (like group notice attachments) and is more likely to receive some loving from the rest of us
11:59] Justin Clark-Casey: right nowe
11:59] Andrew Hellershanks: Justin, as long as it isn't so "non-trivial" that 076 would be out by the time a back port is complete.
12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: :-)
12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: I think it's quite possible that would happen
12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: yea, I'd love to have group notice attachments. I was half way through doing that for flotsam but I got lost trying to figure out some viewer/os issues.
12:00] Marcus Llewellyn: Flotsam's biggest problem at the moment (and correct me if I'm wrong!) is that it isn't really actively being developed or improved. It's mostly been maintained only enough to remain usable with releases.
12:00] Andrew Hellershanks: I couldn't get info back to the viewer.
12:00] Justin Clark-Casey: marcus: correct
12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: a bit similar to mumble, but I just don't have the time to maintain it
12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: unfortunately, its region module is licensed under the gpl, which makes it pragmatically impossible to put into opensim core
12:01] Justin Clark-Casey: otherwise I would have added mumble to core, in the same way that the vivox module is in core
12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I'm hoping that seeing how groups was added to OS will give me an idea how to do some of the changes I want to do with search and profile.
12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I want to break them of the need for an external webserver.
12:02] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I have as profiles module that runs in robust
12:02] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: it uses json-rpc for communications
12:02] Andrew Hellershanks: Blue, Nice. I'll have to talk to you about that sometime.
12:02] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I will release it pretty soon
12:02] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: could I ask you a favour?
12:02] Marcus Llewellyn: Very awesome, Bluewall. :)
12:03] Nebadon Izumi: sure justin
12:03] Dahlia Trimble: bye all :) *waves*
12:03] Nebadon Izumi: see you dahlia
12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: I am working on a "raft" of things under the brand name of "SlipStream"
12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: Bluewall: Does it support wen profiles?
12:03] Andrew Hellershanks: I don't know how json-rpc changes things.
12:03] Marcus Llewellyn: web*
12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: not yet
12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: Could you post the meeting transcript? It's a bit of apain to recover the first half becaus eI lost it in the winxp crash
12:03] Nebadon Izumi: sure
12:03] Marcus LlewellynMarcus Llewellyn nods amiably.
12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: plans to though
12:03] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: is that like the 'flotsam' brand name? :)
12:03] BlueWall.Slade @gateway.bluewallvirtual.net:8002: needs to do the login dance with the viewer