[2011/08/23 11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: horrid is a bit strong :) I think they're v popular with education people
[2011/08/23 11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: no, but I hear bad things about those
[2011/08/23 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: i just can not imagine why
[2011/08/23 11:04] Nalates Urriah: Just add a popup that says one has to be nude to save an NPC
[2011/08/23 11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: the attachments code is a mess
[2011/08/23 11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: it has some good stuff, like sound cones
[2011/08/23 11:04] BlueWall Slade: I dug in there about a year ago
[2011/08/23 11:04] BlueWall Slade: made my head spin
[2011/08/23 11:04] Nebadon Izumi: of course just my own personal opinion and experience with it
[2011/08/23 11:04] BlueWall Slade: I got them th half work in 0.6.9
[2011/08/23 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: you mean the ll attachment functions are broken?
[2011/08/23 11:05] BlueWall Slade: last time I checked, yes
[2011/08/23 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: urgh
[2011/08/23 11:05] BlueWall Slade: 1 sec
[2011/08/23 11:05] BlueWall Slade: ahh, never mind
[2011/08/23 11:05] BlueWall Slade: my other session is dead
[2011/08/23 11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I'm off now. See you guys later
[2011/08/23 11:05] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
[2011/08/23 11:05] BlueWall Slade: I'll make a check and tell you in IRC
[2011/08/23 11:05] Nalates Urriah: bye Justine
[2011/08/23 11:06] Nebadon Izumi: see you Justin, give a shout you need anything
[2011/08/23 11:06] Spike Sol: Hello everyone together
[2011/08/23 11:06] BlueWall Slade: ok, thanks! take care
[2011/08/23 11:06] Justin Clark-Casey: Justin Clark-Casey waves
[2011/08/23 11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: Cya, Justing
[2011/08/23 11:06] Sarah Kline: bye
[2011/08/23 11:06] Andrew Hellershanks: -g
[2011/08/23 12:49] Gennifer Eros: What viewer do you use?
[2011/08/23 12:50] Suffy Blackburn: Impudence
[2011/08/23 12:50] Suffy Blackburn: I hate this duck walk
[10:01] Richardus Raymaker: whow..
[10:01] Richardus Raymaker: hi justin
[10:01] Nebadon Izumi: hello justin
[10:01] VivK Lowlag: hi JCC
[10:02] Allen Kerensky: howdy Justin!
[10:02] Justin Clark-Casey: hi richardus. nabdon, vivk, allen, folks
[10:02] Sarah Kline: Hello Justin
[10:02] BlueWall Slade: Hi Justin
[10:02] Allen Kerensky: Justin - was that you with the pic of ~100 alien NPCs dancing?
[10:02] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon :)
[10:03] Allen Kerensky: thanks - i saw it and couldn't find it again - it reminded me of a t-shirt called the Ministry of Silly Alien Walks
[10:03] Allen Kerensky: http://laughingsquid.com/ministry-of-alien-silly-walks/
[10:04] Justin Clark-Casey: heh
[10:04] Nebadon Izumi: https://plus.google.com/101558395514182710128/videos
[10:04] Allen Kerensky: thanks Nebadon! that's the one I was thinking of
[10:07] Richardus Raymaker whispers: hope you locked the cage..
[10:07] Justin Clark-Casey: how is everyone?
[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: doing good
[10:07] Sarah Kline: silent
[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: little tired
[10:07] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[10:07] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. not sure.
[10:07] Justin Clark-Casey: sarah: heh
[10:08] Sarah Kline: )
[10:08] Nebadon Izumi: i spent the last like 5 days straight doing nothing but learning blender
[10:08] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: you are hardcore
[10:08] Sarah Kline: yay
[10:08] Richardus Raymaker: still shocked from win8 news. not good. but thats nothing ith opensim..
[10:08] Sarah Kline: did I see LL logos on your sim Neb?
[10:08] Sarah Kline: lol
[10:09] Sarah Kline: nice work though
[10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: how has my mono patch been working out. Seen a reduction in crashes?
[10:09] BlueWall Slade: that synth looked nice
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: ya, i was meshing around with Logos
[10:09] Allen Kerensky: the blender team has a load of good tutorial videos too
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: its hard to say Justin, most of the time i saw that crash was during the meetings
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: but I can not say i have seen it happen since applying it
[10:09] Nebadon Izumi: so i guess thats a good start
[10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, let's give it longer
[10:09] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, difficult to prove a negative
[10:09] Richardus Raymaker: is there some inressting new opensim version ?
[10:10] Richardus Raymaker: still working on tool. so not doen much with opensim
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: not really, but mono 2.10.5 is out
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: it had an interesting bug fix that caught my eye
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: Xamarin #12, Novell #690357 and many other incarnations of the same bug: Fix a threadpool bug that would hang the threadpool activity under no load.
[10:10] Richardus Raymaker: 2.10.5 not so fast, i lose count
[10:10] Justin Clark-Casey: that is an interesting bug
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: yea
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: the "Lazy" mono bug
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[10:10] Nebadon Izumi: falls asleep and never awakes
[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: we were seeing something like this on our plaza06 server
[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: occasionally i had to reboot the server entirely
[10:11] Richardus Raymaker: mabysoiund like the 16% instance cpu use bug. not sen it for a while
[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: because all the regions on that server would start spewing about threading
[10:11] OtakuMegane Desu: When did that bug fix go in?
[10:11] Spike Sol: good evening Ladys and Gentlemens
[10:11] Justin Clark-Casey: hello spike
[10:11] Richardus Raymaker: hello spike
[10:11] BlueWall Slade: Hi
[10:11] Nebadon Izumi: a few of the regions on that server sit idle for days
[10:11] Sarah Kline: hi
[10:12] Kev Brinner: good evening
[10:12] Richardus Raymaker: where is the source download. the 2.10.4 i could not find to
[10:12] Spike Sol: Hi Hev
[10:12] Spike Sol: Kev
[10:12] Kev Brinner: tag spike
[10:12] Justin Clark-Casey: hi kev
[10:12] BlueWall Slade: Hi
[10:12] Nebadon Izumi: http://download.mono-project.com/sources/mono/mono-2.10.5.tar.bz2
[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: http://download.mono-project.com/sources/libgdiplus/libgdiplus-2.10.tar.bz2
[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm current wrestlying with attachment code....
[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: which I only begun with a view to fixing an npc issue, but now it's taking on a life of its own
[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: heh, that is sort of good thing
[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: it needed love
[10:13] Justin Clark-Casey: boy, it's a fricking mess
[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[10:13] Nebadon Izumi: seems to be one of the bigger complaints lately
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: the inconsistent attach state thing
[10:14] BlueWall Slade: that scripted attach fix is a good one
[10:14] Richardus Raymaker: ok. thx so that link works again
[10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: I did a fix for IAS though I don't know if it's complete
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: k cool
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: i need to push out a new OSgrid release
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: i'll try to do that today
[10:14] Justin Clark-Casey: that would be good
[10:14] Sarah Kline: great
[10:14] Richardus Raymaker: oh, how easy can the remote admin command be expanded ?
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: if i can pry myself away from Blender for 10 minutes
[10:14] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:15] BlueWall Slade: hehe
[10:15] Sarah Kline: heheh
[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: i need to attend a Blenders Annonymous meeting
[10:15] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: not too difficult
[10:15] VivK Lowlag: 12 steps
[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: https://plus.google.com/101558395514182710128/posts/BCePUG6LaNE
[10:15] Nebadon Izumi: this is what ive been making as I am learning
[10:16] Richardus Raymaker: cool, nice nebadon
[10:16] Sarah Kline: thats nice
[10:16] Richardus Raymaker: a few more prims i think and it makes sound
[10:16] Allen Kerensky: damn thats really nice Nebadon - kudos
[10:16] Nebadon Izumi: thanks
[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: here is what it looks like loaded into OpenSiim
[10:17] Nebadon Izumi: https://plus.google.com/101558395514182710128/posts/5T969MGYus1
[10:17] Allen Kerensky: really seems like OSG has turned a corner over the summer - cool new projects - massive code fixes - more people - roleplay's kicking off
[10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: nice
[10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: now it just needs to be scripted to actually play notes ;)
[10:17] Allen Kerensky: yeah that worked really well on the import
[10:17] Justin Clark-Casey: and for the keys to move up and down.....
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: heh that might be a bit difficult
[10:18] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey grins
[10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: that's where prims are still handy, I guess
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: but i do have plans to atleast make the keys all be touchable
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: all the keys are 6 prims total
[10:18] Allen Kerensky: how about MIDI with aftertouch? *evilgrin*
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: i am able to break them up into 8 and 7 touchable surfaces
[10:18] Richardus Raymaker: since when do the have 1 mono file. and not seperate lib ?
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: which i plan to do
[10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: so, did you get to the bottom of 3.0.1 and 3.0.2 crashing with meshes, or is that still around?
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: no
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: its still happening
[10:18] Justin Clark-Casey: urrrrgh
[10:18] Nebadon Izumi: i might have to purge my sandbox eventually
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: im still sort of waiting it out though
[10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it's very difficult to address things which happen with older content
[10:19] Sarah Kline: for me too..blue screen with 3.0
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: i tested yesterdays daily build yesterday
[10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: especially with so many other things to fix
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: it instantly crashes
[10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: god
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: i see grass for like 1 second
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: and boom
[10:19] Nebadon Izumi: poofs away
[10:19] Justin Clark-Casey: so how do you feel about mesh now?
[10:20] Sarah Kline: I love it
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: well honestly i think its great, but its a bit discouraging about the crashing
[10:20] Justin Clark-Casey: yes
[10:20] Richardus Raymaker: well, its intressting. if there where viewers to look at it :\
[10:20] Justin Clark-Casey: and these are now production viewers?
[10:20] Nebadon Izumi: i guess the good news though
[10:20] Sarah Kline: they are coming
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: is that the actual release veiewer on the LL download page does not crash
[10:21] Justin Clark-Casey: that's 3.0.0. right?
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: but the beta and project development viewers both do
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: yea
[10:21] Sarah Kline: lol it does for me
[10:21] Richardus Raymaker: yes, but the sidebar is stillthere. and deteach makes iot so you cannot drop it to buttons down.
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: it instantly crashes on login Sarah?
[10:21] Sarah Kline: strange
[10:21] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: so I think I asked, but the crashing mesh are actually quite recent? Not stuff uploaded via the older method?
[10:21] Bri Hasp: true.. the newest LL3 for general public works well for me
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: 3.0.1 i have not been able to log in to Reticulation even one time
[10:21] Justin Clark-Casey: I wish the viewers were more crash resistant....
[10:21] Nebadon Izumi: or anything newer
[10:22] Sarah Kline: yes after one ok log in the next was machine lock up
[10:22] Richardus Raymaker: tried that one short in sl. big mistake
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: i have never logged in one successfuly yet
[10:22] Sarah Kline: do you use nvidia card?
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: i can log in fine to Second Life though
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: just not my mesh sandbox on OSgrid
[10:22] Nebadon Izumi: its not a driver issue Sarah
[10:22] Bri Hasp: I do.. switch between 295 and 460
[10:22] Richardus Raymaker: the 3 viewer where good, if the remove the sidebar.
[10:23] Bri Hasp: hahs
[10:23] Richardus Raymaker: hmm 295 yummie. wich one is better bri ?
[10:23] Sarah Kline: there is a jira for the nvidia bug
[10:23] Bri Hasp: 295 by far ...stable
[10:23] VivK Lowlag: I found after the latest nvidia upgrade on 3 pc's to uninstall and reload plug and play helps
[10:23] Richardus Raymaker: i have 275 its fine to
[10:24] Bri Hasp: I use kirsten mostly
[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: reload plug and play?
[10:24] VivK Lowlag: in device manager
[10:24] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, kirsten i can try it again. but last time it did not start at all
[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: on Windows 7?
[10:24] VivK Lowlag: yes
[10:24] Richardus Raymaker: linux
[10:24] Bri Hasp: 7-64
[10:24] Nebadon Izumi: well i have re-installed the drivers
[10:24] Justin Clark-Casey: I've found 2.8.3 to be very stable on ubuntu 11.04 64 bit
[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: even went back to to an older version
[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: was no help what so ever
[10:25] Richardus Raymaker: eeuw ubuntu 11.04 thats a bad version
[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: like i said i can log into secondlife fine
[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: its not crashed even one time in SL
[10:25] Justin Clark-Casey: wha? what's wrong with 11.04?
[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: its crashed 100% of the time in OpenSim
[10:25] Sarah Kline: oh
[10:25] Sarah Kline: oh dear
[10:25] Richardus Raymaker: its not stable. it start to slowdown programs sometimes and other weird things
[10:25] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: it sounds like we're sending stuff t othe viewer that it's just not expecting
[10:25] Sarah Kline: yes worrying
[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: Sarah give it a shot
[10:25] Nebadon Izumi: after meeting
[10:25] Sarah Kline: ok
[10:25] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: sounds more like ahw problem
[10:25] VivK Lowlag: I haven't had any problem with 3.0
[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: download the latest beta veiwer
[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: and try logging in to Reticulation
[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: so far no one can
[10:26] VivK Lowlag: did yesterday
[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: several people have tried
[10:26] Sarah Kline: the latest official release one
[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: i have identified atleast 15 mesh that crash that viewer
[10:26] Nebadon Izumi: but there are many many more
[10:26] Richardus Raymaker: besides your in pretty fight on 11.04 to remove that unity crab justin
[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: reticulation doesn't crash 3.0.0?
[10:27] Richardus Raymaker: 11.04 its justin windows :P
[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: richardus: yes, that was annoying
[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: correct Justin
[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: i mean you may crash occasionaly
[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: but with 3.0.1 you can not log in ever
[10:27] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, another thing to look at
[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: but
[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: if i make a brand new sim or go to a sim with no mesh
[10:27] Richardus Raymaker: but 10.04 is doing weird last 2 days to. hmm.
[10:27] Nebadon Izumi: it logs in fine
[10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: and new mesh don't cause the issue?
[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: not so far
[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: but if i even rez one of these bad mesh
[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer crashes instantly
[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: as soo as i rez
[10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: and those bad old mesh aren't very old?
[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: no
[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: they are after the last format changes
[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: few weeks
[10:28] Justin Clark-Casey: mmmmm
[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: some were only a few days
[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: some were like 24-48 hours old
[10:28] Nebadon Izumi: when i started noticing
[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: its very odd for sure
[10:29] Justin Clark-Casey: must be some bad data
[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: not all mesh though are doing it
[10:29] Nebadon Izumi: some mesh that were uploaded within minutes of each other 1 is fine 1 is bad
[10:29] Justin Clark-Casey: or maybe the viewer was ignoring some field before that it's not decided to choke on
[10:29] Justin Clark-Casey: now
[10:29] VivK Lowlag: maybe it's something walled garden wrote in their viewer if't not on SL crash the viewer
[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: i even fired up an old Pentium 4 machine
[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: with an AGP ATI video card
[10:30] Nebadon Izumi: it also crashed instantly
[10:30] Bri Hasp: anyone use 3ds Max 2010 3D
program?
[10:30] Justin Clark-Casey: vivk: the tpv devvelopers would see that v quickly
[10:30] VivK Lowlag: it's a joke
[10:30] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey grins
[10:31] Allen Kerensky: the viewer dev list did talk about XML changes to mesh between v2.x and v3.x viewers
[10:31] Allen Kerensky: and the servers returning some codes differently
[10:31] Justin Clark-Casey: yes, it might be something like that
[10:31] Richardus Raymaker: ? "lunch kirsten viewqer S21" no not a type from me
[10:31] VivK Lowlag: they are also complaining the number of changes that they can't keep up
[10:31] Allen Kerensky: within the last 2-3 weeks I think
[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: Allen, this started later than that
[10:31] Bri Hasp: also try 2011.3 Autodesk COLLADA exporter to a Collada 1.4 file then import
[10:31] Nebadon Izumi: this started a week or two after that
[10:32] Allen Kerensky: ah well - rule that out then
[10:32] Richardus Raymaker: it seems tatatra can export as mesh to. offcorse maby not so good as blender.
[10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: the thing to do would be to compare the crashing mesh data with the noncrashing stuff and work out the difference
[10:32] Dahlia Trimble: hi :)
[10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: that means inspecting assets dumps directly
[10:32] Justin Clark-Casey: hi dahla
[10:33] Sarah Kline: is this mesh you created ?
[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: here is the exact date it started
[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: Thursday, August 11, 2011 12:23:57 AM (1313047437)
[10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: there is a console command line to dump an asset to a file
[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: http://automated-builds-secondlife-com.s3.amazonaws.com/hg/repo/mesh-development/rev/238249/index.html
[10:33] Sarah Kline: that crashes
[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: this viewer
[10:33] BlueWall Slade: Hi Dahlia
[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: is the 1st viewer that crashing starts
[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: if i go back 1 viewer prior to this
[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: crashing stops
[10:33] Bri Hasp: byes.. work calls
[10:33] Justin Clark-Casey: bye bri
[10:33] Nebadon Izumi: bye Bri
[10:33] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, kirsten forgot the grid choicer ?
[10:34] Dahlia Trimble: bye Bri :)
[10:34] Allen Kerensky: isn't there a git command that shows changes between source trees?
[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: Kirstens has never had grid chooser
[10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: I hear the firestorm guys are planning to put it in
[10:34] Nebadon Izumi: Kirstens is primarily for LL grid
[10:34] Sarah Kline: hmm that one was working ok for me, but if i go look at your meshes
[10:34] Justin Clark-Casey: Really need to implement multi-attachments
[10:35] Allen Kerensky: really need a way to grow many more opensim coders and grid admins to help out
[10:35] Richardus Raymaker: firestorm, dont like that one
[10:35] Sarah Kline: firestorm viewing mesh only so far, and they are actually working with Kokura team lol
[10:35] Allen Kerensky: mumble learn mono mumble grok massive opensim source tree mumble increase time to 48 hour days
[10:35] Sarah Kline: and adding more opensim support
[10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: allen: yes. I think one step for that is to bring in the CA and eliminate the 6 month barrier
[10:35] Justin Clark-Casey: allen: heh
[10:35] Dahlia Trimble: astra displays mesh
[10:36] Nebadon Izumi: Cool viewer does also
[10:36] Allen Kerensky: hmm someone else uses cool viewer?
[10:36] Allen Kerensky: wild
[10:36] Richardus Raymaker: im restricted with viewers. most32bit did not run for soem reason.
[10:36] Richardus Raymaker: very bad
[10:36] Sarah Kline: yes all starting to happen
[10:36] VivK Lowlag: I do sometimes
[10:37] Allen Kerensky: just surprising - I thought I was the only one - based on the viewer tags I usually see
[10:37] Justin Clark-Casey: I hear that mumble no longer works with opensim master?
[10:37] Richardus Raymaker: what do i wrong ? --loginurl http://login.osgrid.org/
[10:37] Dahlia Trimble: one dash
[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: -loginuri http://login.osgrid.org -loginpage http://osgrid.org/splash -helperuri http://helper.osgrid.org/
[10:38] Allen Kerensky: loginuri with an i, not an l
[10:38] Richardus Raymaker: hmm, then the wiki need a update from sl
[10:38] Dahlia Trimble: -loginuri
[10:38] Richardus Raymaker: unknown -l
[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: you must have a space
[10:38] Richardus Raymaker: i have.
[10:38] Nebadon Izumi: copy the line i put above
[10:39] Richardus Raymaker: ohh wait its uri not url
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: I have a feeling that mono patch you did probably did help Justin
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: probably should get sent to mono guys
[10:40] Justin Clark-Casey: let's give it another couple of weeks
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: its sucha simple patch
[10:40] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[10:40] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it's not ideal but hopefully they can develop it appropriately
[10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm kind of surprised that bug is there though, assuming it is a bug
[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: i still have one more server i need to upgrade to 2.10.5 and apply that patch
[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: though i have not really seen that same crash anywhere but this sim
[10:41] Justin Clark-Casey: so you're putting tha tpatch on all the plazas now?
[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: which makes it even more strange
[10:41] Nebadon Izumi: yes
[10:42] Dahlia Trimble: what does the patch do?
[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: plaza01 and plaza02
[10:42] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it might be a corner case, which is why it hasn't been fixed up till now
[10:42] Richardus Reinard: hmm, kirsten forgot the chat bar in deteched window ??
[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=5571
[10:42] Nebadon Izumi: that is the mantis Dahlia
[10:42] VivK Lowlag: one thing noticeable eeven more is lack of chat lag
[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: chat lag is a tough one
[10:43] Nebadon Izumi: a lot of the time when there is chat lag it can be network related too
[10:43] VivK Lowlag: it hasn't happened yet
[10:43] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: yeah, if the web read fails it throws the appropriate exception rather than carrying on and later failing on the buffer read
[10:43] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: it's actually some anomolies with the header data that causes the exception, I think
[10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: I wonder if mono have eimplemented thread prioritization yet
[10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: or whether they ever will.
[10:44] Nebadon Izumi: heh
[10:44] Justin Clark-Casey: because it would be good to prioritize some thread s(e.g. chat) over others
[10:45] Nebadon Izumi: couldnt we do that in our own methods?
[10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: I'm sure there are improvements, but we can't do much about scheduling priority
[10:45] Justin Clark-Casey: every time chat is received it excutes on its own thread from the pool
[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: which is why it sometimes appears out of order - some threads are held for longer than others in stress situations
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: ah
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: one thing i have noticed before with out of order chat
[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: in theory you could enforce ordering ubt that starts getting more complex
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: that is usally only local to you
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: ive had times when i had 2 or 3 avatars in
[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: ah, that kind of chat is usually due to droped packets :)
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: and the other 2 avatars saw the order fine
[10:46] Richardus Reinard: where are meshes to see ?
[10:46] BlueWall Slade: we use SmartThreadPool, right?
[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: which is the other big cuase, probably more major
[10:46] Nebadon Izumi: but avatar who was speaking only saw the out of order
[10:46] Andrew Hellershanks: 50 minutes after my PDA reminded me of this meeting, I finally made it. Too distracted by some other coding I was doing.
[10:46] Justin Clark-Casey: bluewall: mostly
[10:46] BlueWall Slade: http://www.codeproject.com/KB/threads/smartthreadpool.aspx
[10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: hi andrew
[10:47] Andrew Hellershanks: Hello, everyone
[10:47] Sarah Kline: reticulation richardus
[10:47] BlueWall Slade: it says they have prioritization
[10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, they might do it, but mono has been ignoring it
[10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: the apis are just stubs
[10:47] BlueWall Slade: grrrrr
[10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: at least, they were last time i looked
[10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: haven't looked for a while, though
[10:47] Justin Clark-Casey: it might be some fundamental issue with doing this on unix systems, for all I know
[10:48] Rocker Able: hello all likeing this grid
[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: hello Rocker
[10:48] Justin Clark-Casey: hello rocker
[10:48] Dahlia Trimble: are threads managed in mono or in the kernel?
[10:48] Kev Brinner: hi rocker
[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: good question
[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: i would assume kernel
[10:48] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: kernel ultimately
[10:48] Nebadon Izumi: on our plaza06 server lately we have seen an issue where the entire server needs to be rebooted
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: the plazas all start complaining about can not start a new thread
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: and only option has been to reboot fedora
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: the suse servers have never done it
[10:49] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: sounds liek thread exhaustion
[10:49] Richardus Raymaker: what kernel version ?
[10:49] Richardus Raymaker: have the idea newer kernels do weird things. (ubuntu 11.04)
[10:49] Justin Clark-Casey: if something managed to tie up every thread that would be problematic...
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: 2.6.34.8-68.fc13.x86_64
[10:49] Nebadon Izumi: btw, never use Fedora 13
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: its horrible
[10:50] Justin Clark-Casey: it's so not gonna be kernel :)
[10:50] Justin Clark-Casey: it will be either opensim or mono
[10:50] Richardus Raymaker: hmm that must be fine. i seen weird things on my system with 2.6.38+
[10:50] Dahlia Trimble: I prefer debian :)
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: my 1st choice is suse
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: but this server company didnt offer it
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: and their self install was absurdly expensive
[10:50] Nebadon Izumi: 50$ an hour for KVM access
[10:50] Richardus Raymaker: suse for server, or windows
[10:51] BlueWall Slade: a lot of times they will install most anything you ask for.
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: well
[10:51] Richardus Raymaker: thts expensive. here KVM in datacenter cost 25 euro month
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: i got this server on 50% discount sale
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[10:51] Richardus Raymaker: unless you add your own kvm card
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: they were not offering any extras
[10:51] BlueWall Slade: haa
[10:51] Rocker Able: are groups working here?
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: its a Dual Socket Xeon with 16gb ram
[10:51] Nebadon Izumi: for 122$ a month
[10:51] BlueWall Slade: sweet
[10:52] OtakuMegane Desu: That's not bad
[10:52] Richardus Raymaker: well a kvm card is cheaper then, if you have pci. http://www.aten.com/products/productItem.php?model_no=IP8000
[10:52] Justin Clark-Casey: rocker: yes
[10:53] Rocker Able: wow i just found ot awesome
[10:53] Nebadon Izumi: :)
[10:53] Richardus Raymaker: for 16GB its very cheap one nebadon
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya superb.net, not a bad company
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: not my 1st choice
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: but they were holding a big 50% off select servers sale
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: its not a new server
[10:54] OtakuMegane Desu: Actuallly once you're hitting dual-socket hardware 16GB is pretty easy to drop in. Tend to have lllots of slots.
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: its older Dual socket Dual core xeon
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: for 4 cores
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: it works ok though
[10:54] Richardus Raymaker: but, with 16GB !
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: memory is so cheap anymore
[10:54] Justin Clark-Casey: ahhhh hardware chat
[10:54] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: seeing as we're coming to the top of the hour - any more opensim issues?
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: well some good news
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: Bulletsim went in to core today
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: its very close to being useable
[10:55] Sarah Kline: )
[10:55] Andrew Hellershanks: woohoo
[10:55] OtakuMegane Desu: Oh cool
[10:55] Richardus Raymaker: for desktops. for servers the let you pay the lottery
[10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: cool. Been doing more testing?
[10:55] Dahlia Trimble: ooou I need to play with it :)
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: most of the basic stuff is working
[10:55] OtakuMegane Desu: Richardus: Depends where you get it lolll
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: no vehicles yet
[10:55] Justin Clark-Casey: does mesh work?
[10:55] Nebadon Izumi: but hopefull soon
[10:55] OtakuMegane Desu: Damn L key..
[10:56] Justin Clark-Casey: physics proxies, I mean
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: I have not tested
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: i will though
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: i am gonna start new round of testing today
[10:56] Andrew Hellershanks: What's missing on vehicle support side?
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: radams says he is checking in fix for x64 linux support later today some time
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: Andrew not sure 100%, ping radams1 on opensim-dev
[10:56] Nebadon Izumi: he can fill you in
[10:56] Richardus Raymaker: verhicles. we need plane engine support
[10:57] Andrew Hellershanks: nebadon, k
[10:57] Richardus Raymaker: or the tech devs have a betetr word for the engines
[10:57] Richardus Raymaker: i forgot right now
[10:57] Rocker Able: any news on mesh suport guys?
[10:57] Richardus Raymaker: ?
[10:57] Nebadon Izumi: we have Mesh support too Rocker
[10:57] Sarah Kline: as long as my golf cart works
[10:57] Sarah Kline: giggles
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: I think right now vehicles are just not working
[10:58] Dahlia Trimble: mesh support pretty much works except for convex hulls
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: but radams has my racer
[10:58] Rocker Able: super i model in 3 d studio max
[10:58] Nebadon Izumi: and its being worked on
[10:58] Sarah Kline: ok )
[10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: have you heard of this mesh crashing bug?
[10:58] Dahlia Trimble: nope
[10:58] Dahlia Trimble: wouldnt surprise me if there was one tho
[10:58] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon says that 3.0.1 and 3.0.2 crash out on certain meshes on reticulation
[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: the region reticulation, that is
[10:59] Rocker Able: uses collida .dea for mesh?
[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: and these aren't very old meshes either
[10:59] Dahlia Trimble: oh viewer crashes?
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: ya can not even log in at all
[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, it sounds like something coming out of opensim is triggering it
[10:59] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: nothing in the viewer crash log?
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: nothing that makes any sense to me
[10:59] Dahlia Trimble: older assets I bet
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: some of the assets Dahlia
[10:59] Nebadon Izumi: were uploaded 24-48 hours before that new viewer was released
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: on the 3.0.0 viewer
[11:00] Justin Clark-Casey: the thing to do would be to dump a bad asset from the asset database an dcompare that with a dump of a good asset
[11:00] Dahlia Trimble: all of the assets?
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: no but what i did was load the OAR into a local sim
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: and took everything into inventory
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: erased the entire sim
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: then rezzed 1 item at a time
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: until things started crashing
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: i isolated about 15 items so far
[11:00] Richardus Raymaker: not sure whats mesh. but it looks all cool there nebadon
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: but the odd part is
[11:00] Nebadon Izumi: i have mesh that were uploaded within minutes of each other
[11:01] Richardus Raymaker: my first time i see mesh
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: 1 works fine
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: 1 crashes the viewer
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: even some are the same exact object
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: uploaded within minutes of each other
[11:01] BlueWall Slade: I have to take offf, see you all next week
[11:01] Dahlia Trimble: well the viewer makes the assets, so not miuch we can do
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: see you BluewWall
[11:01] Sarah Kline: bye blue
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:01] VivK Lowlag: bye Bluewall
[11:01] Dahlia Trimble: bye
[11:01] Rocker Able: any links for mesh like a tutorial ?
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: its a shitty bug for sure
[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: bye bluewall
[11:01] Nebadon Izumi: i am hoping that it does get fixed
[11:01] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: that's a good point
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: it's curious that it doesn't crash on the sl grid, though
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: my viewer has sent LL about 250 dump reports
[11:02] Nebadon Izumi: quite literally
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: ha ha - maybe they'll fix it ;)
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: at least kirsten seems not to crash. its only laggy slow for me
[11:02] Sarah Kline: I'm sure that it can be quite buggy in SL
[11:02] Dahlia Trimble: I think the LL sims do add some fields to the asset
[11:02] Richardus Raymaker: well, you payed enouygh to them nebadon. so let them do something :))
[11:02] Andrew Hellershanks: I've only uploaded one mesh to SL so far using Viewer 3.0.3
[11:02] Justin Clark-Casey: dahlia: oh
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya every day i test the daily builds
[11:03] Dahlia Trimble whispers: like creator perhaps?
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: so we'll see
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: im trying to be patient
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[11:03] Dahlia Trimble: maybe some havok stuff
[11:03] Justin Clark-Casey: if that was the case one might expect all mesh to crash thogh
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ya what is even more odd
[11:03] Dahlia Trimble: maybe they do eventually
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: is if i started a fresh new sim
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: and uploaded mesh with 3.0.1+ viewers
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: its fine
[11:03] Nebadon Izumi: ive not been able to make it crash that way yet
[11:04] Dahlia Trimble: maybe wiping the sim doesnt quite work
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: so i might be forced to just erase my sandbox
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: and start over
[11:04] Dahlia Trimble: Im surprised older assets work at all
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: I wish the viewer were more robust
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: yeah, that is surprising
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: but for now i'll keep it intact for a few more weeks
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: these are not older assets
[11:04] Justin Clark-Casey: probably easier to leave the functionality in thatn risk ripping it out, though
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: after the last mesh format change
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: i wiped the sandbox
[11:04] Nebadon Izumi: these are all 2.8.x+ mesh
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: a TPV might be more inclined to fix it
[11:05] Richardus Raymaker: to bad you still have the LOD problem
[11:05] Dahlia Trimble whispers: how did you wipe it?
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: but we need to be more tpv firendly
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i cleared all the content from the region
[11:05] Dahlia Trimble: how?
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: started totally fresh
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: this is in OpenSim
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i just wiped out the database
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: and server cache?
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: the crash never happens in SL
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ya
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: ive tried clearning all the caches
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: and viewer cache?
[11:05] Justin Clark-Casey: k
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: i even loaded the oar from OSgrid to Local sim
[11:05] Nebadon Izumi: 1st login crashed
[11:06] Dahlia Trimble: its probably something else
[11:06] Dahlia Trimble: try in a prim region?
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: ya so far ive not seen anything that seems consistent
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: i have
[11:06] Nebadon Izumi: the viewer never crashes if there is no mesh prim present
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: and on my local test sim
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: i have about 45 mesh rezzed
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: without crashing
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: but i isolated about 15 mesh as the sandbox
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: that crash the viewer as soon as I rez them
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: just poofs away as soon as i rez it
[11:07] Richardus Raymaker: nebadon. its not something with the 0.0.0 crash we still have with other viewers sometimes ?
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: nah
[11:07] Nebadon Izumi: its not related to that
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: cause if i relog with 3.0.0 viewer
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: the item i just rezzed that crashed the viewer is where its supposed to be
[11:08] Richardus Raymaker: hmm. well we know who made the viewer...
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: ok, I need to go and do things
[11:08] Andrew Hellershanks: I have to get going. See you next week.
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: Revolution told me though
[11:08] Justin Clark-Casey: bye andrew
[11:08] VivK Lowlag: bye JCC
[11:08] Dahlia Trimble: ya me too. Bye all :)
[11:08] Nebadon Izumi: that 3.0.1 LL has refactored how textures are handled
[11:09] Richardus Raymaker: bye dahlia
[11:09] Animah Capalini: bye Dhalia
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: but to be honest i am not sure if its related to that or not
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: some of the prims that crash the viewer
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: have no textures at all
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: shouldn't be, but who knows
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: one of the prims is pretty much a box
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: with some holes in it
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: I think I'll visit reticulation quickly, though it won't crash my 2.8.3
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: right
[11:09] Justin Clark-Casey: see you folks later
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: see you justin
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: if you want a copy of the oar
[11:09] Nebadon Izumi: let me know
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: i can even send you an IAR with the bad prims
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: nebadon: I will
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: it's on my list - along with everything else in the universe
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: hehe ya
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: thanks man
[11:10] VivK Lowlag: woohoo a no crash meeting
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: but we need to have a stable mesh before releaing 0.7.2 I think
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: ya good start
[11:10] Nebadon Izumi: its actually been a few weeks since no crash
[11:10] Richardus Raymaker: still the framerate with kirsten is so much better.
[11:10] Justin Clark-Casey: yes. there is one issue to fix and then hopefully the web request problem has gone away - you never know
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: that would be great :)
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: ok well thanks everyone for coming
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: upgraded to 2.10.5
[11:11] Justin Clark-CaseyJustin Clark-Casey waves
[11:11] Nebadon Izumi: same time next week
[11:11] Richardus Raymaker: bye justin
