Chat log from the meeting on 2008-02-12

[10:59] Teravus Ousley: Hey there Justin.. black still :P
[10:59] You: hello folks
[10:59] You: yep, black is BACK!
[10:59] Hiro Protagonist: Big nasty T-Storm here, if I fall off the net you'll know why
[10:59] Americo Damasceno: How can I change my appearance
[11:00] Hiro Protagonist: right click your avie for teh pie menu
[11:00] Americo Damasceno: I did it. Nothing appears
[11:00] Teravus Ousley looks for Neas.. >.>, <.<
[11:01] Charles Krinkeb: Americo. First do a "create" on shape, skin, pants, shirt, etc from inventory and then you can edit appearance.
[11:01] You: Neas, neas, where art thou?
[11:01] Lawson English: shape has no create button
[11:01] Hiro Protagonist: from inv window
[11:02] Charles Krinkeb: We focus this one hour meeting on software development. We have another meeting on Saturday, same time, same place where anything goes. In the meantime, Freenode for IRC, channel #opensim, wiki, osgrid.org/forums
[11:02] Charles Krinkeb: Inventory->Create->Shape
[11:03] You: I believe neas wanted to whale on our bug heap today
[11:03] Hiro Protagonist: that'd be sweet
[11:03] Teravus Ousley: Neas not going to make it?
[11:03] Teravus Ousley: :D
[11:03] Charles Krinkeb: 7 avatars, 641Mbyte VIRT, 550Mbyte RES, 22% CPU, 55% memory.
[11:03] Teravus Ousley: ahh... there he is
[11:04] Charles Krinkeb: Now that all the Mantis issues are taken care of, we can just play, right?
[11:04] You: charles, which revision?
[11:04] Charles Krinkeb: r3412
[11:04] Teravus Ousley: Yes. super boink!
[11:04] You: Is that post MW's fix for my breakage?
[11:04] Neas Bade: Afternoon folks
[11:04] You: it probably is
[11:04] Hiro Protagonist: Afternoon Neas :)
[11:05] Charles Krinkeb: Afternoon, Neas. We are hoping you will guide us in triage on Mantis to get us going.
[11:06] You: then again, while neas is pondering that, we could talk about something else
[11:07] Hiro Protagonist: gah. stuck in typing anim
[11:07] Hiro Protagonist: there we go :)
[11:07] Charles Krinkeb: 8 avatars, 736Mbyte VIRT, 635MBtye RES, 23% CPU, 64% MEM
[11:07] You: I think we should do no triage and just regularly 'accidentally' delete mantis :D
[11:07] Teravus Ousley: how are the asset/texture stats?
[11:08] Hiro Protagonist: lmao@Justin
[11:08] Charles Krinkeb: Is it correct to say that memory is our current top issue?
[11:08] Neas Bade: running through the bugs in mantis and trying to confirm what are still issues, and reduce the number of things sitting in the 'new' state
[11:08] Neas Bade: it would be great to get some more folks helping on that front
[11:08] You: probably, my attempt to work on this was too hurried last friday
[11:08] Charles Krinkeb: Can we unilaterally close any that are older then 6 weeks, say?
[11:08] You: but I'm going to go back and do it properly
[11:08] Charles Krinkeb: If they are still issues, they will return soon enough.
[11:08] Neas Bade: even if we don't assign bugs to folks, putting them in the confirmed state is good to know they are things to work on
[11:09] You: teravus: were you talking to me re: asset/texture stats?
[11:09] You: oh no, generally for this region....
[11:09] Neas Bade: I'd rather not just close old bugs without confirming if they are still issues or not
[11:09] Mircea Kitsune: hello
[11:09] Hiro Protagonist: Charles: I dont think thats a bad idea, because any that are still valid and older than that will have been impacted in some respect by all the refactoring
[11:09] You: hello mircea
[11:09] Hiro Protagonist: just MHO :)
[11:09] Charles Krinkeb: How about if Hiro and I go on a program of encouraging #opensim folks to confirm/deny older bugs.
[11:10] Neas Bade: that would be very cool
[11:10] Hiro Protagonist: can do :)
[11:10] You: could do - I reckon a good proportion of the older bugs actually will be valid
[11:10] You: from the current leaderboard, I don't think we've been doing that much bug fixing
[11:10] Mircea Kitsune: hmm.. seen older bugs on mantis. that im not sure if they could still be valid today
[11:10] Teravus Ousley: 61 bugs for me? :D
[11:10] Charles Krinkeb: Mircea. Can you help with that also. The mission is to encourage others in the IRC channel to confirm or deny that older mantis bugs are real or not.
[11:10] Hiro Protagonist: I dont suppose them so much to be invalid as just needing to be rereported under contemporary circumstances
[11:10] You: top gun, Teravus ;)
[11:11] Neas Bade: right, part of the issue is to try to clear out our backlog and figure out what are actually issues
[11:11] Mircea Kitsune: yeas, i can test anything if anoyne wants
[11:11] Mircea Kitsune: just tested that old mantis about the lang "crashing when set for sale" todday
[11:11] Neas Bade: I also wrote the osmantis bot to give mantis issues more visibility on IRC
[11:11] You: neas - any chance that bot could report who made the latest change
[11:11] Hiro Protagonist: that thing is awesome Neas
[11:11] You: as well as the originator of the issue?
[11:11] Neas Bade: because I think one of the reasons mantis was overlooked was because no one was noticing changes
[11:11] Neas Bade: justin, yeh, I think so
[11:12] Hiro Protagonist: Heya ChrisD :)
[11:12] Neas Bade: it reports originator now
[11:12] You: well, I regularly get everything through e-mail
[11:12] Charles Krinkeb: Is the mantis bot helpful to everyone?
[11:12] You: there are rather a few of them
[11:12] Hiro Protagonist: I think the mantis bot is awesome
[11:12] Chris D: Hi Hero
[11:12] Mircea Kitsune loves the new mantis bot. will help everyone lots
[11:12] Justin Clark-Casey is going to be the rotton apple
[11:12] You: it spams my eyes :) No really, it's good
[11:13] Charles Krinkeb: 9 avatars, 747MBtye VIRT, 637Mbtye RES, 23% CPU, 64% MEM
[11:13] You: I can't see a way to reduce the amount of text - it has to state the essentials I guess
[11:13] Neas Bade: justin, you can always ignore it :)
[11:13] You: oh yeah!
[11:13] You: great idea ;)
[11:13] Hiro Protagonist: heehee
[11:13] Hiro Protagonist: an unignore if you're watching somethin
[11:13] Mircea Kitsune: yeah. #opensim-dev is especially for code and system-talk so its good there
[11:13] Mircea Kitsune: yeah
[11:14] Neas Bade: I figured I'd run it a few days and see what the reaction is
[11:14] You: neas - do we need the 'category' line?
[11:14] Teravus Ousley: Next few days I'm going to try to work out the issues with physical prim that are blockers under regular use
[11:14] You: usually category is fairly obvious from the description
[11:14] Teravus Ousley: Next few days I'm going to try to work out the issues with physical prim that are blockers under regular use
[11:14] Neas Bade: it could definitely be made a little smarter
[11:14] Charles Krinkeb: Good point, Question: Are we abusing opensim-dev by too much non-code talk, or is it cool with the developers at this point?
[11:14] You: charles: it's cool with me
[11:14] Mircea Kitsune likes the way opensim-dev is like currently.
[11:14] Teravus Ousley: obviously there are still potential stack overflow issues.. however those can be solved by linking parameters in Windows and a proper incantation on *nix
[11:14] Mircea Kitsune: its very good
[11:15] Charles Krinkeb: 10 avatars, 800Mbyte VIRT, 692 MByte RES, 25% CPU, 70% MEM
[11:15] Neas Bade: honestly, the thing to do probably is to provide more information on the original submit, and something smaller on updates. But I wrote the whole integration in a couple of hours this week, so it was a first take
[11:15] You: well, in the next week I plan to revisit the memory issue
[11:15] Mircea Kitsune notices she has 8-9 FPS whule looking at the croud abnd having everyone here in her FOV
[11:15] You: neas: yeah, I agree - it's a good start - I'm just being picky
[11:15] Hiro Protagonist: Justin: that could DEF use some TLC
[11:16] You: do better locking on inventory, and think about going async on inventory transfers on region crossings (per Teravus' request)
[11:16] Hiro Protagonist: 52 FPS with full view of the crowd here
[11:16] Hiro Protagonist: Heya Neb :D
[11:16] Teravus Ousley: hehe, yes. that'll help region crossings a *LOT*
[11:16] Mircea Kitsune: Im also using windlight so its less for that reason
[11:16] You: Hi Nebadon
[11:16] Nebadon Izumi: hello
[11:16] Lawson English: 6 fps right now here
[11:16] Mircea Kitsune: hmm.. chat lag
[11:16] Charles Krinkeb: Anyone disagree that memory is not our top issue?
[11:16] Justin Clark-Casey waits for the treadmill to appear
[11:16] Mircea Kitsune: hi Nebadon
[11:16] Neas Bade: Teravus, I'm running into a funny issue with ODE in ppc
[11:17] Hiro Protagonist: Honestly Charles, I'd say that and bugs are running neck and neck
[11:17] Lawson English: Dr Scofield submitted a bug report about issues with PPC and libsl/opensim
[11:17] Teravus Ousley: I'm not sure how much testing I can do on PPC, as I don't have anything to test on.
[11:17] Hiro Protagonist: memory might address a good many bugs too
[11:17] You: charles: i suspect scripts may also be taking up a lot of memory
[11:17] Lawson English: something to do with packbits call (endian issues)
[11:17] Neas Bade: http://pastebin.ca/901543 - just trying to figure out if you've seen something like this before
[11:17] Charles Krinkeb: There are 100 scripts running on this region right now.
[11:17] You: when i started my appserver each one appeared to eat up 3Mb
[11:17] Neas Bade: Lawson, yep those patches are integrated
[11:18] You: appserver = opensim
[11:18] Teravus Ousley: Yes, Neas, that means that your system might have an ODELibrary in the local library
[11:18] You: too much damn J2EE nggggghh
[11:18] Neas Bade: ah ok
[11:18] Teravus Ousley: .. that's taking presidence over the one in the OpenSim folder
[11:19] Charles Krinkeb: ckrinke hands Teravus a dictionary with a spell checker for "precedence"
[11:19] Neas Bade: ok, that might make sense for why it worked at one point
[11:19] Teravus Ousley: I thought that it would be a good seqway for talking about politics! :D
[11:19] Neas Bade: someone might have installed the distro
[11:19] Teravus Ousley: :D segway :D
[11:20] Teravus Ousley: j/k
[11:20] Neas Bade: someone should build a segway :)
[11:20] Justin Clark-Casey hands Teravus a dictionary with a spell checker for "segue"
[11:20] Charles Krinkeb: The plazas were split into two mono instances last Saturday, by the way.
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: i started building one in SL
[11:20] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:20] Teravus Ousley: heh
[11:20] Hiro Protagonist: seguey?
[11:20] You: charles: are you seeing memory issues regularly?
[11:20] Charles Krinkeb: Yes, the plazas just barely survive overnight.
[11:21] You: is it worse than it was, or has it always been this way?
[11:21] Charles Krinkeb: Worse since scripts started running.
[11:21] You: Yes, I think scripts are making a big contribution to this, which you might want to tell Tedd about
[11:21] Charles Krinkeb: 11 avatars, 1087Mbyte VIRT, 864MByte RES, 29% CPU, 86% MEM
[11:21] Teravus Ousley: 86 scripts running :D
[11:22] Mircea Kitsune: If its on-topic... i noticed for a few days my sim is really slow to logins/region border crossing
[11:22] Teravus Ousley: my computer barely made it to 90 before Visual studio threw up :D
[11:22] You: ping
[11:22] You: but we also don't appear to release memory on client logout, which was what I was looking at
[11:22] Charles Krinkeb: We will probably start swapping before the end of this meeting and start lagging significantly.
[11:22] Mircea Kitsune: if you try to cross to it, you float for 30 seconds or more before connecting
[11:22] Charles Krinkeb: Yes, memory only increases, it never seems to go down.
[11:22] Mircea Kitsune: kept wondering why.. my general connection speed is very good and no firewall on
[11:22] Teravus Ousley: Time dilation has already dropped a bit
[11:22] You: this feels like the end days all over again
[11:23] Teravus Ousley: In a recent commit, I'm actually sending the real time dilation to the client in object updates now
[11:23] Hiro Protagonist: MK: there's been some nasty internet routing issues the past couple of weeks wich ChrisD and I were able to pin down as a source of such troubles midweek last week
[11:23] Hiro Protagonist: lagging bad
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: viewer crashed again
[11:23] Mircea Kitsune: hmm...
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: blah
[11:23] Charles Krinkeb: 11 avatars, 1212MByte VIRT, 881MByte RES, 37% CPU, 88% MEM
[11:23] Charles Krinkeb: Better the viewer then the sim.
[11:23] Nebadon Izumi: haha yea true
[11:23] Hiro Protagonist: Go Charles lmao
[11:24] Mircea Kitsune: ah yeah about the avatars... i kept wondering, if it normal to have such a CPU usage at just 11 avatars? I mean, on older computers, having.. probably 15 people connect to your sim could cause lots of trouble
[11:24] Hiro Protagonist: at present it def could MK
[11:24] Charles Krinkeb: Mircea. We have some problems, but we need to diagnose them completely before we can solve them.
[11:25] Mircea Kitsune: yeah i was wondering if with time, it can be reduced
[11:25] Charles Krinkeb: The reward for fixing each bug is the next one gets a tiny bit more subtle.
[11:25] Teravus Ousley: I suppose the issue in my mind is are we anywhere closer to identifying where the memory leak is?
[11:25] You: mircea: I should think so
[11:25] Mircea Kitsune: or if having so many avatars must use lots of cpu and everything
[11:25] Hiro Protagonist: that's pretty much what we're discussing now LoL
[11:25] Mircea Kitsune: ah thats good then
[11:25] You: teravus: not for sure - I'm currently looking to stop us holding on to client/scene presence structures when we log out
[11:26] Mircea Kitsune notices all the avatars keep having short bounces together. noticed that on her sim... ode bug she thinks
[11:26] You: but some is also down to scripting, though that may well not be leaky, just expensive
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: wtf
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: my viewer keeps crashing here
[11:26] Hiro Protagonist: what viewer Neb
[11:26] Charles Krinkeb: 12 avatars, 1336MByte VIRT, 843 RES, 34% CPU, 84% MEM
[11:26] Hiro Protagonist: what ver I mean
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: 1.18.5(3)
[11:26] Hiro Protagonist: hmmmm
[11:26] Hiro Protagonist: on winderes?
[11:26] Charles Krinkeb: Hmm. I'm using 1.18.5.3
[11:26] Nebadon Izumi: yea
[11:26] You: teravus: meh, need to do tools research to pin it down really
[11:27] Hiro Protagonist: I'm running the same one on linux
[11:27] Teravus Ousley: heh, at 21 avatar, my packet limiter starts kicking in :D
[11:27] You: teravus: what's a good tool for that?
[11:27] Neas Bade: the 1.19 windlight viewer works very nicely :)
[11:27] Mircea Kitsune is using 1.19 too.. everythings very good
[11:27] Teravus Ousley: hmm..
[11:27] Teravus Ousley passes that question off to lbsa, or joha :D
[11:27] Hiro Protagonist: I've had some stability issues with it, not too bad, but in any case cant associate the issues with a particular grid
[11:28] Teravus Ousley: we're at 16 avatars by the simstats count. and that's what the packet limitor uses to know when to start kicking in.
[11:28] Charles Krinkeb: What are the other things that affect the developers that need to be discussed in the next 30 minutes?
[11:29] Justin Clark-Casey whistles
[11:29] Charles Krinkeb: Did I scare everyone away?
[11:30] Hiro Protagonist: nah
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:30] Neas Bade: yes, you are a big scary monster :)
[11:30] You: doesn't the silcence mean 'there are none'?
[11:30] Hiro Protagonist: just waiting for the devs to speak up :)
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: sdague did you get my rss feed link?
[11:30] Neas Bade: I did, I'll hook that up later today
[11:30] Teravus Ousley: whoops, lag begins!
[11:30] Charles Krinkeb: Turning the question around: "What are the things the devs would like to see happening that are not happening?"
[11:30] Mircea Kitsune can feel her fps decreasing
[11:30] Hiro Protagonist: hmmmm, script perf is 1 ps
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: nice
[11:30] Nebadon Izumi: i feel a crash coming
[11:30] Hiro Protagonist: 1 ips rather
[11:31] Neas Bade: it's sort of like an earth quake coming
[11:31] You: yeah, we're already well into swap
[11:31] Teravus Ousley: well the time dilation sinc should help in this situation
[11:31] Charles Krinkeb: 12 avatars, 1610Mbyte VIRT, 849MByte RES, 34% CPU, 85% MEM
[11:31] Neas Bade: neb: I'll put that into the planet later today
[11:31] You: you mean, we won't be aging as fast as people nd
[11:31] You: not in the sim
[11:31] Groove Market: melting
[11:31] Neas Bade: I wonder where that leak is, as I don't see it on my test environment
[11:32] Mircea Kitsune: lets ask everyone else on irc to connect so we can see how many avatars it can handle well
[11:32] Stefan Andersson: Well, I think the elephant in the room would be the attachments/scene objects issue
[11:32] Justin Clark-Casey had a scary sinking moment
[11:32] Charles Krinkeb: incoming avatar
[11:32] Neas Bade: which means it must be in the grid handling code
[11:32] Teravus Ousley: heh, the client apparently uses time dilation to help drive it's interpolation
[11:32] Hiro Protagonist: hey yeah stef
[11:32] You: oh no
[11:32] Trevis Ferraris: hi
[11:32] Nebadon Izumi: i think we have already exceeded the how many avatars it can handle well threshhold
[11:32] Hiro Protagonist: It'd be great if that were even just a little more workable
[11:32] Teravus Ousley: nah, .. packets out are 422,
[11:32] Chris D: I will bring in another avatar.
[11:33] Teravus Ousley: this is memory related most likely
[11:33] Charles Krinkeb: 13 avatars, 1661MByte VIRT, 840MByte RES, 24% CPU, 83% MEM
[11:33] Charles Krinkeb: 2000MByte total ram in the server.
[11:33] You: I see this machine has 1gb physical - we're using 1687mb
[11:33] You: oh yeah, my bad
[11:33] Neas Bade: the agent updates / sec is really right
[11:34] Mircea Kitsune: hmm..chat and movement lag are starting to take place too
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: yea i though this machine has 1 gig charles
[11:34] Nebadon Izumi: did it get upgraded?
[11:34] Charles Krinkeb: Bunch of resending going on on the console.
[11:34] Teravus Ousley: yes, the agent updates/sec is correct
[11:34] Hiro Protagonist: lag is rampant
[11:34] Hiro Protagonist: I'm showing 20 peeps
[11:34] Charles Krinkeb: Did somebody open the map?
[11:34] Neas Bade: sorry, I mean it's really high
[11:34] You: yeah, 1 gig physical, 1 gig swap
[11:35] Kurt Stringer: hello all, sorry I 'm late
[11:35] Teravus Ousley: well, 20 peeps means that my packet limit code is almost kicking in :P
[11:35] Neas Bade: hey, if someone is watching top on the system, I'd be curious how much is system time
[11:35] Nebadon Izumi: yea but if we are using swap at all its over
[11:35] Stefan Andersson: where's that number coming from?
[11:35] Stefan Andersson: ... 55879 pending downloads..?
[11:35] You: we were using swap 10 minutes ago (20 by the time you read this)
[11:36] Charles Krinkeb: 17 avatars, 1771 VIRT, 832 RES, 22 %CPU 83% MEM
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:36] Groove Market: earthquake!
[11:36] Hiro Protagonist: I show 20 avs still
[11:36] Charles Krinkeb: The great part is we actually have 17 avatars in here.
[11:36] Hiro Protagonist: TD at .63
[11:36] Hiro Protagonist: FPS 70+
[11:36] Nebadon Izumi: yea unfortunatly wright plaza is built on a Fault Line
[11:37] Charles Krinkeb: Thats Ok, Its a good test.
[11:37] Teravus Ousley: heh, we need one or two more avatar! :D
[11:37] Hiro Protagonist: 121.8 PFPS
[11:37] Mircea Kitsune: Hehe.. no physics engine seems to be good with it. ODE and POS cause earthwuakes, and bulletX makes you slide
[11:37] Justin Clark-Casey logs in an alt
[11:37] Neas Bade: well nifty, I managed to get opensim to start on ppc with ode :)
[11:38] Neas Bade: I think that ODE needs a threshold for movement
[11:38] You: 1828 mb
[11:38] Neas Bade: I think that the jitter is just float rounding errors
[11:38] You: pin
[11:38] Charles Krinkeb: Thats great, neas. Does it run well?
[11:38] Charles Krinkeb: show updates has a lot less activity then with POS
[11:39] Neas Bade: it's an old and slow power box, so it runs slowly
[11:39] You: logins to this region appear to be offline
[11:39] Kurt Stringer: ok, that was interesting
[11:39] Neas Bade: I'm hoping to get access to some meatier hardware this week
[11:39] Hiro Protagonist: time dialation .51
[11:40] Mircea Kitsune: wow.. well i think OS cannot yet handle more then 15 users at most today
[11:40] Teravus Ousley: going too slow probably :P
[11:40] Hiro Protagonist: requests timing out on teh user server
[11:40] tapsi vita: versteht mich einer
[11:40] You: well, that might mean we won't go above 1902mb
[11:40] Nebadon Izumi: as far as im concerned this is a crashed state
[11:40] Neas Bade: it's like bullet time
[11:41] Neas Bade: Micrea, opensim in standalone mode does a bit better under the load
[11:41] Charles Krinkeb: Ah, you are watching the top, Justin?
[11:41] Neas Bade: I regularly have 15 on it
[11:41] You: yes, I am perched there
[11:41] Teravus Ousley: bullet time?
[11:41] Nebadon Izumi: how much ram do you have Neas
[11:42] Nebadon Izumi: rofl this is comical
[11:42] Hiro Protagonist: this is great
[11:43] Chris D: Tapsi vita:ich spreche kein Deutsch
[11:43] Mircea Kitsune currently has her SL client's stats reporting 7.x fps and, at a period of time around 34 kbps, but at others arouaround 200-300 though rarely
[11:43] You: we froze up completely last week

There followed a five minute pause for tea and light refreshments (actually, the region used up all the memory in the machine and had to be restarted).

[11:48] Teravus Ousley: hello again!
[11:48] Charles Krinkeb: Did we learn anything from that?
[11:48] You: greetings
[11:48] Teravus Ousley: maybe I need to implement my packet limiting code a little faster!
[11:48] Teravus Ousley: :D
[11:48] You: we have a memory leak or three?
[11:49] Charles Krinkeb: Although we have nearly 100 scripts, it is not an unreasonable amount to expect in a region for OpenSim.
[11:49] You: probably has been there along, though excarabated by scripts
[11:49] You: 100 scripts = 300mb I think ( completely unscientific observation)
[11:50] Teravus Ousley: well, you could disable the scritps and find out. Want to try that?
[11:51] Charles Krinkeb: How does one do that?
[11:51] You: that may well be worth a try before the next big mneeting
[11:51] Teravus Ousley: Estate tools, Debug tab, Check 'Disable Scripts', click apply
[11:51] Teravus Ousley: to turn them back on again, go to the same tab, uncheck it, and click apply
[11:52] Charles Krinkeb: Done
[11:52] You: okay, so memory usage is dropping
[11:52] Charles Krinkeb: Oh, wow, the console shows it is unloading a bunch of scripts.
[11:52] You: down to 293mb now
[11:52] You: each login appears to cost about 16mb
[11:53] Charles Krinkeb: Turn scripts on and see what it goes back up to?
[11:53] You: but subsequent activity could push that up
[11:53] You: could do
[11:53] You: yeah, good idea, try that
[11:53] Primitive: reset.
[11:53] Charles Krinkeb: Scripts enabled button pressed.
[11:53] Primitive: reset.
[11:53] You: going up
[11:53] Primitive: restarted
[11:53] Teravus Ousley: the scripts are coming back online
[11:54] Charles Krinkeb: Yeah, 3MByte per script
[11:54] Mircea Kitsune: so the client "disable scripts" works too for OS?
[11:54] Mircea Kitsune: for a parcel?
[11:54] Teravus Ousley: yes
[11:54] Mircea Kitsune: sweet
[11:54] Teravus Ousley: .. on the estate
[11:54] Charles Krinkeb: Looks like it works fine.
[11:54] Teravus Ousley: not for the parcel yet
[11:54] Mircea Kitsune: nice
[11:54] Primitive: reset.
[11:54] You: but scripts at least appear not to leak - since they released all their memory on the shutdown
[11:54] You: I mean, the disable
[11:55] Teravus Ousley: but keep the scripts running
[11:55] Charles Krinkeb: So, one thing I can do is disable scripts when I go to bed and the region should survive the night better.
[11:55] Teravus Ousley: we're looking at ways to stop piping events to scripts in parcels with scripts disabled
[11:55] You: well, they don't leak on shutdown - doesnt' necessarily mean they don't leak in operation (though it feels unlikely)
[11:55] You: okay, we seemed to have stopped rising at 413mb
[11:55] You: so actually, that seems a good bit lower, about 120mb usage
[11:56] Charles Krinkeb: Does the "disable physics" button do anything?
[11:56] Teravus Ousley: heh, when nobody talks I get worried so I start to move :D
[11:56] You: charles - I presume you dont' reset this region before the meeting beings?
[11:56] Teravus Ousley: yes, it disables physics
[11:56] You: begins?
[11:57] Charles Krinkeb: I try to restart this region just before the meetings.
[11:57] You: oh okay, that's interesting
[11:57] Charles Krinkeb: Dont do it 100%, but I try.
[11:57] You: usage is worse than I thought then, if we're climibing 1600mb or so on only 20 avatars
[11:57] Nebadon Izumi: yea thats not good
[11:58] Charles Krinkeb: How can we make Sakai a billionaire with memory leaks like this?
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[11:58] You: heh heh heh
[11:58] Mircea Kitsune: hey, i was curious in this case; is there any way we can create a avatar limit for a sim? So someone in opensim.ini can set a maximum number of avatars/
[11:58] Mircea Kitsune: and when its reached, others cnanot cross borders any mor
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: eventually yes
[11:58] Mircea Kitsune: *more
[11:58] Nebadon Izumi: its actually part of the estate tools
[11:59] Nebadon Izumi: Agent Limit
[11:59] Charles Krinkeb: Agent Limit sets the max number of avatars. It may not be implemented yet.
[11:59] Teravus Ousley: alas, it isn't yet
[11:59] Mircea Kitsune: It would be great if ti would
[12:00] Mircea Kitsune: wait, is there a maximum avatar option in region settings for the client too?
[12:00] Charles Krinkeb: I would rather us concentrate on decreasing memory footprints for logins and scripts then making the limit field work.
[12:00] Teravus Ousley: yep, and I'd rather work on making physical prim ready for prime time :D
[12:00] You: Wwe must be badly leaky somewhere other than logins, since my observation is that a login costs 16mb
[12:00] You: not enough to explain the problem
[12:01] You: I intend to look at this problem, though my time is pretty limited this week
[12:01] You: if you can get someone else interested that would be cool
[12:01] Charles Krinkeb: In C#, what sort of programming constructs *could* explain the observation. Admiteddly, I am asking for a guess.
[12:01] You: I don't think there are any specific constructs
[12:01] You: it's probably references being held on to after they've finished their useful lives
[12:02] Charles Krinkeb: Is there a way to force garbage collection on a regular basis?
[12:02] You: unless we're leaking out of unmanaged code - but that feels unlikely
[12:02] Charles Krinkeb: It could be leaking in libsecondlife.
[12:02] You: Charles: it can probably be forced from an attached debugger, but that won't help
[12:02] Mircea Kitsune: Ah also, something i have sen and wanted to suggest.. about another problem;
[12:03] Mircea Kitsune: What is this ruth avatar symbol? That avatars are fatter when they login and have pigtails, etc? What does it really mean?
[12:03] Chris D: Do we know if the same problem exists with a region running under Winows?
[12:03] Mircea Kitsune: Anyway, i noticed oit ruins peoples customised appearance. and i wanted to suggest we remove the "ruth avatar" system. so everyone has the appearance they put on
[12:03] Teravus Ousley: if we all make it to Saturday, we can test on Ideal.
[12:04] Teravus Ousley: .. Saturday, the test hour.
[12:04] Teravus Ousley: Ideal is windows
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: be interesting to see how W2K8ODE takes a beating too
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: its a 2xP3-1000mhz with 1g ram
[12:04] Charles Krinkeb: Should we plan on Saturday to be Ideal or W2K8ODE?
[12:04] Nebadon Izumi: or both
[12:05] Teravus Ousley: Well, we can toss physical objects back and forth between Ideal, Underverse and W2K8ODE?
[12:05] You: hmm, I wonder if the memory problem is somehow exacarabatd by lots of people logging in at once
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: yea sounds good
[12:05] You: we seem to be quite happy on 422mb with 7 avatars
[12:05] Charles Krinkeb: I would not be surprised, Justin
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: Windows > Linux > Windows
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: hehe
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: its a Linux Sammy
[12:05] You: so extrapolating to 20 should only put us at the 650mb mark
[12:05] Nebadon Izumi: on Win Bread
[12:06] Teravus Ousley: I think I'm also going to refine my packet limiter a bit.
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: 20 at 650 still sounds really high
[12:07] You: yeah, I think it is high still
[12:07] Charles Krinkeb: The other question might be if there is a memory leak when multiple avatars open inventory and edit appearance simultaneously.
[12:07] Mircea Kitsune: shoud we try and do that?
[12:07] You: yeah, that's a good question
[12:07] Teravus Ousley: On the LLGrid, 15 avatar produces on average 440 pps out
[12:07] Neas Bade: what the deal with the orb that keeps popping in and out of existence?
[12:07] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:07] Charles Krinkeb: To the South?
[12:07] Neas Bade: yeh, I think so
[12:08] Neas Bade: so hard to tell direction with windlight as the sun is always in the same place
[12:08] Charles Krinkeb: Thats Mircea's. On the next sim.
[12:08] Neas Bade: ah, ok
[12:08] Charles Krinkeb: I use the minimap to tell direction.
[12:08] Nebadon Izumi: its a Kan-Ed script
[12:08] Neas Bade: wow, that's huge then
[12:08] Neas Bade: and would explain why I couldn't inspect
[12:08] Charles Krinkeb: Its about 180 meters away.
[12:09] Mircea Kitsune: hehe nice, Nebadon :)
[12:09] Neas Bade: it would be nice to see if osgrid members would contribute some of the textures to opensim
[12:09] Charles Krinkeb: Between Teravus running circles around me and making me dizzy and Nebadon driving me nuts, I am "standing here beside myself".
[12:09] Neas Bade: I know micrea put some in which I'll get in at some point
[12:09] Nebadon Izumi: lol
[12:10] Mircea Kitsune: Library textures? Yeah, i put 3 on mantis im suggested for adding
[12:10] Nebadon Izumi: say hello to yourself for me :P
[12:10] Neas Bade: I'm so slow on such things
[12:10] Mircea Kitsune: *suggesting
[12:10] Teravus Ousley: now I'm beside yourself
[12:10] Neas Bade: yep, I took those bugs :)
[12:10] Charles Krinkeb: Neas, have you seen the "Hall of Scripts", realtime weathermap and the QuickTime video booths to the south?
[12:11] Neas Bade: yes
[12:11] Neas Bade: the quicktime doesn't like Linux, but the rest of the scripts are quite nice
[12:11] Neas Bade: I need to get the weather map into my test environment
[12:11] Charles Krinkeb: I go and look at those along with the beautiful fountain and remember "Mortville".
[12:11] Neas Bade: the fountain here is really awesome
[12:11] Mircea Kitsune: anyway, i myself must leave now. See you around :)
[12:12] Teravus Ousley: take care :D
[12:12] Mircea Kitsune: later
[12:12] Nebadon Izumi: yea that plaza builder guy is good :P
[12:12] You: yep. I think I'm going to go and get something to eat too
[12:12] Charles Krinkeb: When I get a little down, I come and stand by the fountain and remember our first sims last May or June.

Justincc 10:10, 13 February 2008 (PST)