[Opensim-users] Parcel Archiver?
Justin Clark-Casey
jjustincc at googlemail.com
Mon Nov 23 21:11:07 UTC 2009
Robert Klein wrote:
> Wow, it is really starting to sound like we need a more robust tool for
> backing up, restoring, merging, and upgrading regions and parcels. The use
> case I have is my standalone has a region that has been subdivided into 32
> parcels. Each parcel is an office space where the user can personalize their
> own space. As people roll on and off projects I need to be able to backup a
> parcel and replace it with a blank one for the next user. If the original
> user comes back for another project I need to restore their office space to
> either the same spot or another spot that is available. I seriously do not
> want to backup and restore entire regions for each change of a tiny parcel.
> Also if you rent out an event space think of how easy it would be to just
> bring events up and down based on each time slot. This would give OpenSim a
> really cool and useful advantage.
One thing I forgot to mention is that spending some time with megaregion + OAR
issues is also on the todo long list.
>
> -Robert
>
>
> Diva Canto wrote:
>> Yep, that's my use case too. More and more, the apps I'm involved with
>> include people building things in separate development sims, possibly
>> over copies of a base model, and then having a deployment sim where
>> things are merged periodically.
>>
>> Bob Wellman wrote:
>>> I agree with Diva it would be good if on Save_oar we could specify
>>> owner-id and then the saved file would only contain prims owned by that
>>> user. However it needs to be part of a bigger change I think in trems of
>>> loading oar being less all or nothing too.
>>>
>>> One of the problems with LOAD_OAR at present is the way it replaces
>>> everything in a sim. It would be good if there were an option to replace
>>> or add to whats in a sim already with whats on the file being loaded.
>>> Maybe the replace/add options could be filtered to replace only parts of
>>> the build (eg. replace Nicks prims with the new oar of Nicks prims
>>> leaving Toms prims where they are).
>>>
>>> The use case I am thinking of is where a sim (a city) is built by the
>>> sim owner (Nick) in a standalone grid and loaded via OAR files to a
>>> public grid. Then in that public grid other people (Tom) adds
>>> furnishings to the sim in the public grid. In the meantime the sim owner
>>> (Tom) makes a mark 2 version of the sim in his standalone which he wants
>>> to use to upgrade the one in the public grid. If he does load-oar he
>>> loses all the work done by others (Tom) in the public grid version. What
>>> he wants to do is merge his work with others. So we need someway to save
>>> each contribution and merge them.
>>>
>>> I leave it to others wiser than me to devise a syntax for this.
>>>
>>>
>>> > Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 07:51:55 -0800
>>> > From: diva at metaverseink.com
>>> > To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Parcel Archiver?
>>> >
>>> > There are several kinds of filters one could add to the general
>>> > archiving facility. Parcels... why not. Another one -- more important
>>> to
>>> > me -- is owner id.
>>> >
>>> > Stefan Andersson wrote:
>>> > > There is of course always the option to implement a region module
>>> that can
>>> > > implement some fairly more detailed use case, maybe connecting to
>>> stuff like
>>> > > scheduled jobs et c.
>>> > >
>>> > > /Stefan
>>> > >
>>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>>> > >> From: opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-users-
>>> > >> bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Robert Klein
>>> > >> Sent: den 21 november 2009 15:24
>>> > >> To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>> > >> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Parcel Archiver?
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I see your points and was only suggesting we have some refined way
>>> of
>>> > >> backing
>>> > >> up regions instead of either all or nothing. Even a basic program
>>> for
>>> > >> backing up data on a computer allows you to backup either the whole
>>> > >> disk,
>>> > >> individual directories, and individual files (tar vs dd for
>>> example).
>>> > >> We
>>> > >> have methods for backing up the whole drive and individual files
>>> but
>>> > >> not
>>> > >> directories. It just seems unbalanced.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> I have seen some pretty intense builds in SL and OS on relatively
>>> small
>>> > >> parcels that would be a huge issue to recreate. The IAR files are
>>> great
>>> > >> but
>>> > >> are not a reasonable method for backing up and restoring a 64 x 128
>>> > >> parcel
>>> > >> with several buildings full of content including a museum and
>>> > >> stage/events
>>> > >> area or a nightclub. Experience tells me we are going to need this
>>> if
>>> > >> we
>>> > >> continue to support the concept of having parcels.
>>> > >>
>>> > >> -Robert
>>> > >>
>>> > >>
>>> > >> Stefan Andersson-3 wrote:
>>> > >>> One way to go about it could be to make sure the oar is subdivided
>>> > >> into
>>> > >>> parcels when storing it; if so, one would probably backup the
>>> whole
>>> > >> oar,
>>> > >>> but
>>> > >>> be able to restore only parts of the oar.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> I have only used oars for full backup, so I don't know if the
>>> parcel
>>> > >> info
>>> > >>> is
>>> > >>> already stored in it?
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> /Stefan
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> From: opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de
>>> > >>> [mailto:opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Len
>>> > >> Brown
>>> > >>> Sent: den 21 november 2009 09:20
>>> > >>> To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>> > >>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Parcel Archiver?
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> I am tempted to say that individual parcel backups is not a good
>>> > >> idea. If
>>> > >>> one is building on a parcel, as opposed to a full region, then
>>> simply
>>> > >>> maintaining copies of their items in their inventory should be
>>> > >> adequate.
>>> > >>> Parcels come in so many sizes and making a backup would require
>>> the
>>> > >> new
>>> > >>> parcel for a restore would have to be identical in dimensions. So
>>> > >> this
>>> > >>> can
>>> > >>> be very complex if you have a parcel that, for example, lies along
>>> a
>>> > >> road
>>> > >>> so
>>> > >>> the side of your parcel is angular. Or if you have an odd-shaped
>>> > >> parcel
>>> > >>> or
>>> > >>> a combination of parcels that are separated by other parcels you
>>> do
>>> > >> not
>>> > >>> own.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Backing up a region is simple enough given the standard
>>> dimensions,
>>> > >> even
>>> > >>> when dealing with megaregions, which are really just a combination
>>> of
>>> > >>> multiple "regular" regions of standard size.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> So I feel that backing up personal parcels should remain the
>>> process
>>> > >> of
>>> > >>> maintaining items in your personal inventory and making a backup
>>> of
>>> > >> THAT
>>> > >>> rather than the parcel area itself.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> - Len W. Brown
>>> > >>> lenwbrown at gmail.com
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 1:16 AM, Karen Palen
>>> <karen_palen at yahoo.com>
>>> > >>> wrote:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Just a thought, but with the economics of OpenSim being totally
>>> > >> different
>>> > >>> from Second Life, I wonder if we will end up with hundreds of tiny
>>> > >> parcels
>>> > >>> in each region?
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> It seems to me that there are several issues here concerning
>>> changes
>>> > >> in
>>> > >>> parcel size/location between backup and restore as well as some
>>> > >>> ownership/covenant/zoning issues.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> As I think about the problem I am not sure I (or anyone else) can
>>> > >> fully
>>> > >>> articulate even the nature of those issues since they depend
>>> heavily
>>> > >> on
>>> > >>> the
>>> > >>> direction that OpenSim development and implementation takes.
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Just the same we do need to consider them as best we can lest we
>>> fall
>>> > >> into
>>> > >>> some of the same traps as Second Life (content ownership, banking
>>> > >> debacle,
>>> > >>> and gambling come to mind).
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> Karen
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>> --- On Fri, 11/20/09, Robert Klein <rtkwebman at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > >>>
>>> > >>>> From: Robert Klein <rtkwebman at gmail.com>
>>> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Parcel Archiver?
>>> > >>>> To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>> > >>>> Date: Friday, November 20, 2009, 6:09 PM
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> Hey Justin,
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> Yes that is correct, just archive a single parcel on a
>>> > >>>> region. Whatever is
>>> > >>>> in the parcel gets put into the PAR file. Can it be done?
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> -Robert
>>> > >>>>
>>> > >>>> justincc wrote:
>>> > >>>>> Robert Klein wrote:
>>> > >>>>>> We have a OAR for regions and a IAR for inventory
>>> > >>>> but what about a PAR
>>> > >>>>>> for
>>> > >>>>>> doing parcel area archiving? It would be an easy
>>> > >>>> way to dedicate one
>>> > >>>>>> subdivided parcel area for bringing things in and
>>> > >>>> out of OpenSims that
>>> > >>>>>> either use the mega region or just have a single
>>> > >>>> region that is
>>> > >>>>>> subdivided.
>>> > >>>>>> Also the beauty of this would be in the future if
>>> > >>>> you have renters or
>>> > >>>>>> event
>>> > >>>>>> spaces you can keep backups of just those spaces.
>>> > >>>>> I'm not too sure if I get exactly what you mean.
>>> > >>>> Are you talking about
>>> > >>>>> archiving just the contents of a single parcel on a
>>> > >>>> region?
>>> > >>>>> --
>>> > >>>>> justincc
>>> > >>>>> Justin Clark-Casey
>>> > >>>>> http://justincc.org
>>> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
>>> > >>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> > >>>>> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>> > >>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>>>
>>> > >>>> --
>>> > >>>> View this message in context:
>>> > >>> http://n2.nabble.com/Parcel-Archiver-tp4008165p4040934.html
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>>> > >>>> Nabble.com.
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--
Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
http://justincc.org
http://twitter.com/justincc
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