[Opensim-users] grid operation

Thu Dec 4 20:27:26 UTC 2008

Diva Canto wrote:
> Very nice beginning!
> 
> I would take off judgment about the good-ness/bad-ness of specific 
> configurations (standalone vs. grid). In fact, I have a different 
> opinion of what's written there; there's the easy&right way (standalone, 
> similar to apache server, but for 3D VWs) and the hard-but-bigger way 
> (grid). So let's just not make judgments :-)
> 
> Before I take the scissors out, I thought I'd raise this issue here, to 
> make sure there isn't anything deeper going on... Is standalone being 
> considered "not right" officially?

There are some who think standalone should effectively be a mini-grid (e.g. all the services are run in separate 
processes and use the same comms as the grid, rather than running in a single process).  However, not everybody shares 
this view - I'm not yet convinced, for instance.

Of course, it may also be that the terminology is retained even if the implementation changes.

So I wouldn't say that standalone is considered "not right".

And I didn't actually get any sense that one way was considered better than another in the text - did I miss something?

> 
> 
> Kyle Hamilton wrote:
>> Could someone please read
>> http://opensimulator.org/index.php?title=OpenSim:Introduction_and_Definitions
>> and fix any glaring errors or omissions I may have made?  There's a
>> couple of TODO items therein (at least one needs examination by people
>> familiar with Assets, Inventory, and how they're managed), and I'd
>> like to solicit feedback on how I can write these kinds of things
>> better.
>>
>> -Kyle H
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 12:42 AM, Stefan Andersson <stefan at tribalmedia.se> wrote:
>>   
>>> Really, if somebody would be so excellent as to take this whole thread, and
>>> out of the questions and answers on it, make a wiki page, called
>>> 'OpenSim:Introduction and Definitions' or something, that would be SO
>>> golden.
>>>
>>> You seldom get these opportunities to learn from noob confusion. This is an
>>> excellent thread.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Stefan Andersson
>>> Tribal Media AB
>>>
>>> Join the 3d web revolution : http://tribalnet.se/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 13:16:35 -0800
>>> From: diva at metaverseink.com
>>> To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] grid operation
>>>
>>> Yes, those are all functions of the 3D space service currently. Scripting
>>> and backend modules provide programmable behavior for the objects and agents
>>> in the 3D environment.
>>> The scripts are stored in the asset server, just like all other assets. They
>>> are brought in to the region when the region starts and run on the same
>>> process that runs the region. When you create a new script in a region, that
>>> script is cached in that region's asset cache (in memory), and is sent to
>>> the asset server for persistent storage.
>>>
>>> This is the current architecture. I remember vaguely someone suggesting to
>>> move the script engine(s) to a different server, as an alternative physical
>>> architecture. In that case, the region wouldn't cache the scripts, they
>>> would go to that other server; only the effects of the scripts would be seen
>>> inworld. Not sure how far that idea went.
>>>
>>> This thread is making suspect that many people might be under the wrong
>>> impression that just because they have their own region server connected to
>>> someone's grid, they have 100% control over the assets in the region and
>>> even in their inventories. That is not correct. The persistent storage of
>>> everything is done in the grid-level servers, therefore under the control of
>>> whoever runs those servers. If the asset server kaputs, and there were no
>>> backups, you will loose just about everything you have in your region and in
>>> your inventory. (This is true independent of who has the control over the
>>> asset server, so maybe it's a good thing to have them on someone else's
>>> asset server, you can blame someone else :-)
>>>
>>>
>>> Dickson, Mike (ISS Software) wrote:
>>>
>>> Well, it's running scripts for prims in the region also isn't it…  And
>>> physics for physical items in the scene the region is managing. (These are
>>> assumptions, feel free to clarify, like Paul I'm trying to learn.)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de
>>> [mailto:opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Diva Canto
>>> Sent: Sunday, November 30, 2008 11:36 AM
>>> To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] grid operation
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Right.
>>> When your region is connected to a physical grid, your region is *just* a 3D
>>> space server, nothing else.
>>> All assets belong to the asset server, all inventories belong to the
>>> inventory server, all users belong to the user server.
>>>
>>> Paul Fishwick wrote:
>>>
>>> Got it. So, the data are stored on the asset server. If this is
>>>
>>> so, it doesn't seem that my region server (the opensim instance
>>>
>>> I might run as part of someone's grid) is doing much of
>>>
>>> anything since any change in prim or agent attribute must be
>>>
>>> conveyed back to the grid's asset server.
>>>
>>> -p
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Diva Canto wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> By "assets" I mean the data itself, the blobs/text/etc.
>>>
>>> The region prims/primitems storage holds only references to that data.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Look inside OpenSim.db. There is no "data" there, only meta data and
>>>
>>> references to the data (by UUID) stored on the asset server.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul Fishwick wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> When you say the prims and primitems are not assets, I am confused.
>>>
>>> My understanding was that all items are assets, identified by their unique
>>>
>>> UUIDs. If I follow the point about the asset server, the asset servers
>>>
>>> stores all asset UUID references by region, but that the specific asset
>>>
>>> attributes (i.e., position of an object, or its texture) are stored by UUID
>>>
>>> in the region's DB?
>>>
>>> -p
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Diva Canto wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The asset server holds the assets for the entire collection of regions
>>>
>>> on that physical grid. For example, when you create an object inworld,
>>>
>>> the asset corresponding to that object is stored on the asset server.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The region caches some assets in memory. For example, in that creation
>>>
>>> scenario, the asset would be on the cache of the region too.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The region also has a database storing "prims" and "primitems". These
>>>
>>> are not assets; they are the prims that are inworld at any given time.
>>>
>>> The prims refer to assets (by UUID) that are stored on the asset
>>>
>>> server. Which, as the previous sentence says, may be cached in memory
>>>
>>> of the region.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul Fishwick wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Right. But what, exactly, are these servers doing?  I guess I am trying
>>>
>>> to get at more of the architectural details of what types of messages are
>>>
>>> sent among servers (over the network and to the database(s)). For
>>>
>>> example, there are the UGAIM servers in grid mode. Does the grid's "A"
>>>
>>> server hold all of the assets on your region that  you plugged into the
>>>
>>> grid? Or does your region database (on the same computer as your
>>>
>>> opensim.instance) take care of that?
>>>
>>> -paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ideia Boa wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you run 1 region in a grid, you only run OpenSim server, the others
>>>
>>> servers (User, Grid, Asset, Inventory and Message) are running on the
>>>
>>> Grid servers with the grid OpenSim server.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul Fishwick wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If one hooks a region to a grid, what functions does the
>>>
>>> region server (operating on your computer) perform? The
>>>
>>> Grid servers are running asset and inventory management,
>>>
>>> so does this mean that the grid A and I machines handle
>>>
>>> the assets and inventory or is that the function of the region
>>>
>>> server that connects to the grid?
>>>
>>> -p
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
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>>>
>>> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
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