[Opensim-dev] Still on Sim and Phys Frames per Second (FPS)
Melanie
melanie at t-data.com
Wed Nov 11 00:58:44 UTC 2015
Correct. They also have FUNDING. The apache foundation has lot of
paid permanent staff, as well as money for bounties and hired
programmers.
Of course they can have the luxury of a roadmap.
Same goes for other projects that do that level of organization.
- Melanie
On 11/11/2015 01:53, Glenn Martin wrote:
> To me, this has always been the major weakness of open source software.
> I've seen this on many other projects. There is a "core" in charge but,
> ultimately, they focus only on things that they need for their work. When
> somebody suggests a feature, the response is usually of the form "that
> would be a great addition! If you could code that up, please submit it".
> I completely understand the feeling there, but it's hard to build up a
> major user base that way (the projects continue to stay in "toy" phase).
>
> The truly successful open source projects DO have a roadmap and they DO
> code towards it. They are real projects that just happen to be open source.
>
> Glenn
>
>
> NOTICE: The opinions and thoughts in this email are my own and do not
> reflect those of any other person or organization.
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Melanie <melanie at t-data.com> wrote:
>
> > You keep on about organizational things like a defined roadmap and
> > documentation. These are things generally produced by organized and
> > PAID bodies.
> >
> > Core is a team of developers who just as soon let the code do the
> > talking. Few of us have any talent for doing big writeups and these
> > few are doing other things that take up their time, mostly in academia.
> >
> > Core is consensus-based and there is no "boss" to set out a roadmap
> > everyone else has to follow. We all volunteer our time and
> > creativity for this project and to most of us, this is a
> > recreational activity, not work.
> >
> > Admittedly, the project could profit from some guidance, but that
> > same guidance would likely lead to a loss of active developers, as
> > people who volunteer their time want to do what they like to do, not
> > what some roadmap tells them to. This discussion has been had before.
> >
> > If it were at all possible, I would certainly take up that mantle,
> > but that would dis-mantle the team as it stands now. The current
> > team isn't interested in fulfilling expectations other than those of
> > their own and the users they are working with.
> >
> > For most of the team, that is users of social virtual worlds who
> > could care less about accurate stats, but do care about three green
> > lights on the lag meter. They actually don't even care if the stats
> > show 11 or 55, as long as the lag meter is green.
> >
> > I have had people (in other grids) tell me "This place is so
> > laggy!". I then would move my avatar around to test responsiveness
> > and find that there is no lag, so I would ask them "Why do you
> > consider this laggy? I can't see any lag?" and get "The lag meter
> > shows the sim is lagging" as a reply. These people, several people
> > in multiple grids, then announced to be going back to SL where there
> > is no lag.
> >
> > Go figure.
> >
> > We are there to make things work for the majority of our users.
> > Sorry to say, MOSES and scientists are not a majority. The thousands
> > of social grid users spread across all the virtual worlds are.
> >
> > - Melanie
> >
> > On 11/11/2015 00:44, dz wrote:
> > > I am astounded at how much of the dialogue about this issue you both
> > > choose to ignore.
> > >
> > > Please publish the location of the ROADMAP of REAL CORE problems.... I
> > > will be happy to attend the MOSES meetings and attempt to get those
> > > issues on their agenda. Don't blame people for working on the things
> > > that are important to them when that is the example set by core over a
> > long
> > > period. You expect people to help and then denegrate them for not
> > > attacking the problems you REFUSE to document and share in public.
> > >
> > > When did MOSES get access to commit the patch??? The patch was
> > > accepted after a significant amount of conversation... Everyone BUT
> > > you and Melanie voted it +1... you can't rewrite the history and
> > assert
> > > that the problem is because MOSES committed a patch... CORE committed
> > the
> > > patch at the request of this community.
> > >
> > > I have repeatedly asked for the identification of these mysterious users
> > > who are the source of this avalanche of complaints... I apologize for
> > > assuming they resided on Melanies grid...
> > > Now that I hear that her users aren't the source of the complaints
> > > I'm left to wonder if there is ANY justification for reverting the
> > > stats.. PLEASE share with the group what the source of these complaints
> > is
> > > so we can begin a dialogue. I participate in a LOT of OpenSim related
> > > forums just for that purpose... I haven't seen any of the noise
> > > that is supposedly deafening.
> > >
> > > Assuming "they" truly are upset, I haven't herd a peep about why it
> > is
> > > appropriate for some backroom decision to override the consensus built
> > in
> > > this forum over a period of months.
> > > I'm sorry, I've tried repeatedly to figure out WHY it is important to
> > > revert, and all I keep hearing is "Melanie didnt know it would
> > affect a
> > > lag meter".. This argument was extended to include " We have to
> > > accommodate users of viewers that are NO LONGER being maintained"...
> > > HOW in the world can that be a viable position for you to defend Neb,
> > > when your rant was directed at the importance of moving forward with
> > > viewer developers or we are dead...??
> > >
> > > I really am trying to figure this out, but all I see as responses
> > is
> > > "You are wrong, I changed my mind, it is import to someone who
> > > still hasn't spoken on this list" The whole point of this list is to
> > > share the issues that are important.... Given the volume of traffic on
> > the
> > > subject, it obviously is. Please share some REAL information about
> > > the actual impact so we can re-evaluate the needs of the WHOLE
> > community.
> > > We don't know WHO is complaining,, We HAVE heard that you can
> > > turn the blinking lights into numeric representations ( even in the OLD
> > > meters), We HAVE heard that there is a JIRA for the viewer team to
> > > remove/update the functioning of the lag meter.. Everyone agrees
> > that
> > > the lag meter cant possibly be correct so I find it impossible to
> > > believe that it is INTEGRAL to the success of Opensim. All of use
> > who
> > > wanted accurate stats could be wrong, but I'd sure like to know
> > WHY,
> > > not just have someone pronounce we are and implement yet another
> > > obscure INI variable..
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
> > > nebadon2025 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Doug I participated in MOSES grid as well and my experience there was
> > >> terrible, far worse performance than i experienced in any other grid, I
> > >> took part in the FCVW build and planning and experienced a multitude of
> > >> problems on MOSES platform that just do not exist in the core
> > opensimulator
> > >> software. And this is what I mean by chasing ghosts, MOSES is fixing
> > bugs
> > >> in MOSES for MOSES that just do not exist in the core software. You can
> > >> feel however you want and if you feel embarrassed then go work on MOSES
> > >> software, no one is stopping you. I do agree though that this whole
> > thing
> > >> is quite a huge embarrassment for the project. It still does not change
> > >> the fact that to date no improvements have come from this change and all
> > >> its done is cause arguments, the reason their code was not accepted is
> > >> because it was not suitable for core, end of story. They wanted us to
> > >> accept patches unconditionally and sorry, that is not going to happen.
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Michael Emory Cerquoni
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
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