[Opensim-dev] Still on Sim and Phys Frames per Second (FPS)

Wed Nov 11 00:53:52 UTC 2015

To me, this has always been the major weakness of open source software.
I've seen this on many other projects.  There is a "core" in charge but,
ultimately, they focus only on things that they need for their work.  When
somebody suggests a feature, the response is usually of the form "that
would be a great addition!  If you could code that up, please submit it".
I completely understand the feeling there, but it's hard to build up a
major user base that way (the projects continue to stay in "toy" phase).

The truly successful open source projects DO have a roadmap and they DO
code towards it.  They are real projects that just happen to be open source.

Glenn

NOTICE: The opinions and thoughts in this email are my own and do not
reflect those of any other person or organization.

On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Melanie <melanie at t-data.com> wrote:

> You keep on about organizational things like a defined roadmap and
> documentation. These are things generally produced by organized and
> PAID bodies.
>
> Core is a team of developers who just as soon let the code do the
> talking. Few of us have any talent for doing big writeups and these
> few are doing other things that take up their time, mostly in academia.
>
> Core is consensus-based and there is no "boss" to set out a roadmap
> everyone else has to follow. We all volunteer our time and
> creativity for this project and to most of us, this is a
> recreational activity, not work.
>
> Admittedly, the project could profit from some guidance, but that
> same guidance would likely lead to a loss of active developers, as
> people who volunteer their time want to do what they like to do, not
> what some roadmap tells them to. This discussion has been had before.
>
> If it were at all possible, I would certainly take up that mantle,
> but that would dis-mantle the team as it stands now. The current
> team isn't interested in fulfilling expectations other than those of
> their own and the users they are working with.
>
> For most of the team, that is users of social virtual worlds who
> could care less about accurate stats, but do care about three green
> lights on the lag meter. They actually don't even care if the stats
> show 11 or 55, as long as the lag meter is green.
>
> I have had people (in other grids) tell me "This place is so
> laggy!". I then would move my avatar around to test responsiveness
> and find that there is no lag, so I would ask them "Why do you
> consider this laggy? I can't see any lag?" and get "The lag meter
> shows the sim is lagging" as a reply. These people, several people
> in multiple grids, then announced to be going back to SL where there
> is no lag.
>
> Go figure.
>
> We are there to make things work for the majority of our users.
> Sorry to say, MOSES and scientists are not a majority. The thousands
> of social grid users spread across all the virtual worlds are.
>
> - Melanie
>
> On 11/11/2015 00:44, dz wrote:
> > I am  astounded  at  how much of the dialogue about this issue   you both
> >  choose to ignore.
> >
> > Please  publish the location of the ROADMAP of REAL CORE problems.... I
> > will be  happy  to attend the  MOSES meetings  and attempt to get those
> >  issues on their agenda.  Don't  blame people for working on the things
> > that are important to them when that is the example set by core over a
> long
> > period.   You expect people to help and  then denegrate them  for not
> > attacking the problems  you REFUSE to document and share in public.
> >
> > When  did  MOSES  get access to commit the patch???    The patch was
> > accepted   after a significant amount of  conversation...    Everyone BUT
> > you and Melanie  voted it  +1...  you can't rewrite the history and
> assert
> > that the problem is because  MOSES committed a patch...  CORE committed
> the
> > patch at the request of this community.
> >
> > I have repeatedly asked for the identification of these mysterious  users
> >  who are the source of this avalanche of complaints...   I apologize for
> > assuming they resided on Melanies  grid...
> > Now  that I hear   that  her users  aren't the source of the complaints
> > I'm left to wonder if there is ANY justification for  reverting the
> > stats..  PLEASE share with the group what the source of these complaints
> is
> >   so we can begin a dialogue.  I participate in a LOT of OpenSim related
> > forums   just for that purpose...   I haven't  seen  any of the  noise
> >  that is  supposedly deafening.
> >
> > Assuming "they"  truly are  upset, I haven't herd a peep  about  why it
> is
> > appropriate  for some backroom decision  to override the consensus built
> in
> > this forum over a period of months.
> > I'm sorry,  I've tried  repeatedly to figure out  WHY it is important to
> > revert, and all I keep hearing  is  "Melanie  didnt know it  would
> affect a
> > lag meter"..   This  argument  was extended to include  " We have to
> > accommodate users of viewers  that are NO LONGER being  maintained"...
> >  HOW in the world  can that be a viable position for you to defend Neb,
> >  when your rant  was directed at the importance of moving forward with
> > viewer developers  or we are dead...??
> >
> > I really  am trying  to figure this out,  but  all I see as responses
>  is
> >   "You are  wrong,  I changed my mind,  it is  import to  someone  who
> >  still hasn't  spoken on this list"   The  whole point of this list is to
> > share the issues that are important.... Given the volume of traffic on
> the
> > subject,  it obviously is.    Please  share  some  REAL information about
> > the actual impact  so we can re-evaluate the  needs of the WHOLE
> community.
> >      We  don't  know  WHO is  complaining,,  We  HAVE heard that you can
> > turn the blinking lights into numeric representations ( even in the OLD
> > meters),   We HAVE heard  that there is a JIRA for the  viewer team to
> > remove/update the functioning of the lag meter..     Everyone agrees
> that
> > the lag meter  cant possibly be correct   so I find it impossible to
> > believe that it is  INTEGRAL to the success of  Opensim.    All of use
> who
> > wanted accurate stats  could be  wrong,   but I'd  sure like to know
> WHY,
> >  not just have someone  pronounce  we are  and  implement yet another
> > obscure  INI variable..
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
> > nebadon2025 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Doug I participated in MOSES grid as well and my experience there was
> >> terrible, far worse performance than i experienced in any other grid, I
> >> took part in the FCVW build and planning and experienced a multitude of
> >> problems on MOSES platform that just do not exist in the core
> opensimulator
> >> software.  And this is what I mean by chasing ghosts, MOSES is fixing
> bugs
> >> in MOSES for MOSES that just do not exist in the core software.  You can
> >> feel however you want and if you feel embarrassed then go work on MOSES
> >> software, no one is stopping you.  I do agree though that this whole
> thing
> >> is quite a huge embarrassment for the project.  It still does not change
> >> the fact that to date no improvements have come from this change and all
> >> its done is cause arguments, the reason their code was not accepted is
> >> because it was not suitable for core, end of story.  They wanted us to
> >> accept patches unconditionally and sorry, that is not going to happen.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Michael Emory Cerquoni
> >>
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
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