To me, this has always been the major weakness of open source software. I've seen this on many other projects. There is a "core" in charge but, ultimately, they focus only on things that they need for their work. When somebody suggests a feature, the response is usually of the form "that would be a great addition! If you could code that up, please submit it". I completely understand the feeling there, but it's hard to build up a major user base that way (the projects continue to stay in "toy" phase).<br><br>The truly successful open source projects DO have a roadmap and they DO code towards it. They are real projects that just happen to be open source.<br><br>Glenn<br><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div><br>NOTICE: The opinions and thoughts in this email are my own and do not reflect those of any other person or organization.<br><br></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 7:31 PM, Melanie <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:melanie@t-data.com" target="_blank">melanie@t-data.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">You keep on about organizational things like a defined roadmap and<br>
documentation. These are things generally produced by organized and<br>
PAID bodies.<br>
<br>
Core is a team of developers who just as soon let the code do the<br>
talking. Few of us have any talent for doing big writeups and these<br>
few are doing other things that take up their time, mostly in academia.<br>
<br>
Core is consensus-based and there is no "boss" to set out a roadmap<br>
everyone else has to follow. We all volunteer our time and<br>
creativity for this project and to most of us, this is a<br>
recreational activity, not work.<br>
<br>
Admittedly, the project could profit from some guidance, but that<br>
same guidance would likely lead to a loss of active developers, as<br>
people who volunteer their time want to do what they like to do, not<br>
what some roadmap tells them to. This discussion has been had before.<br>
<br>
If it were at all possible, I would certainly take up that mantle,<br>
but that would dis-mantle the team as it stands now. The current<br>
team isn't interested in fulfilling expectations other than those of<br>
their own and the users they are working with.<br>
<br>
For most of the team, that is users of social virtual worlds who<br>
could care less about accurate stats, but do care about three green<br>
lights on the lag meter. They actually don't even care if the stats<br>
show 11 or 55, as long as the lag meter is green.<br>
<br>
I have had people (in other grids) tell me "This place is so<br>
laggy!". I then would move my avatar around to test responsiveness<br>
and find that there is no lag, so I would ask them "Why do you<br>
consider this laggy? I can't see any lag?" and get "The lag meter<br>
shows the sim is lagging" as a reply. These people, several people<br>
in multiple grids, then announced to be going back to SL where there<br>
is no lag.<br>
<br>
Go figure.<br>
<br>
We are there to make things work for the majority of our users.<br>
Sorry to say, MOSES and scientists are not a majority. The thousands<br>
of social grid users spread across all the virtual worlds are.<br>
<br>
- Melanie<br>
<br>
On 11/11/2015 00:44, dz wrote:<br>
> I am astounded at how much of the dialogue about this issue you both<br>
> choose to ignore.<br>
><br>
> Please publish the location of the ROADMAP of REAL CORE problems.... I<br>
> will be happy to attend the MOSES meetings and attempt to get those<br>
> issues on their agenda. Don't blame people for working on the things<br>
> that are important to them when that is the example set by core over a long<br>
> period. You expect people to help and then denegrate them for not<br>
> attacking the problems you REFUSE to document and share in public.<br>
><br>
> When did MOSES get access to commit the patch??? The patch was<br>
> accepted after a significant amount of conversation... Everyone BUT<br>
> you and Melanie voted it +1... you can't rewrite the history and assert<br>
> that the problem is because MOSES committed a patch... CORE committed the<br>
> patch at the request of this community.<br>
><br>
> I have repeatedly asked for the identification of these mysterious users<br>
> who are the source of this avalanche of complaints... I apologize for<br>
> assuming they resided on Melanies grid...<br>
> Now that I hear that her users aren't the source of the complaints<br>
> I'm left to wonder if there is ANY justification for reverting the<br>
> stats.. PLEASE share with the group what the source of these complaints is<br>
> so we can begin a dialogue. I participate in a LOT of OpenSim related<br>
> forums just for that purpose... I haven't seen any of the noise<br>
> that is supposedly deafening.<br>
><br>
> Assuming "they" truly are upset, I haven't herd a peep about why it is<br>
> appropriate for some backroom decision to override the consensus built in<br>
> this forum over a period of months.<br>
> I'm sorry, I've tried repeatedly to figure out WHY it is important to<br>
> revert, and all I keep hearing is "Melanie didnt know it would affect a<br>
> lag meter".. This argument was extended to include " We have to<br>
> accommodate users of viewers that are NO LONGER being maintained"...<br>
> HOW in the world can that be a viable position for you to defend Neb,<br>
> when your rant was directed at the importance of moving forward with<br>
> viewer developers or we are dead...??<br>
><br>
> I really am trying to figure this out, but all I see as responses is<br>
> "You are wrong, I changed my mind, it is import to someone who<br>
> still hasn't spoken on this list" The whole point of this list is to<br>
> share the issues that are important.... Given the volume of traffic on the<br>
> subject, it obviously is. Please share some REAL information about<br>
> the actual impact so we can re-evaluate the needs of the WHOLE community.<br>
> We don't know WHO is complaining,, We HAVE heard that you can<br>
> turn the blinking lights into numeric representations ( even in the OLD<br>
> meters), We HAVE heard that there is a JIRA for the viewer team to<br>
> remove/update the functioning of the lag meter.. Everyone agrees that<br>
> the lag meter cant possibly be correct so I find it impossible to<br>
> believe that it is INTEGRAL to the success of Opensim. All of use who<br>
> wanted accurate stats could be wrong, but I'd sure like to know WHY,<br>
> not just have someone pronounce we are and implement yet another<br>
> obscure INI variable..<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <<br>
> <a href="mailto:nebadon2025@gmail.com">nebadon2025@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Doug I participated in MOSES grid as well and my experience there was<br>
>> terrible, far worse performance than i experienced in any other grid, I<br>
>> took part in the FCVW build and planning and experienced a multitude of<br>
>> problems on MOSES platform that just do not exist in the core opensimulator<br>
>> software. And this is what I mean by chasing ghosts, MOSES is fixing bugs<br>
>> in MOSES for MOSES that just do not exist in the core software. You can<br>
>> feel however you want and if you feel embarrassed then go work on MOSES<br>
>> software, no one is stopping you. I do agree though that this whole thing<br>
>> is quite a huge embarrassment for the project. It still does not change<br>
>> the fact that to date no improvements have come from this change and all<br>
>> its done is cause arguments, the reason their code was not accepted is<br>
>> because it was not suitable for core, end of story. They wanted us to<br>
>> accept patches unconditionally and sorry, that is not going to happen.<br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni<br>
>><br>
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