[Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Dahlia Trimble
dahliatrimble at gmail.com
Sat Apr 25 12:23:00 UTC 2015
Hi Douglas,
We certainly appreciate your efforts to help us. OpenSimulator would hardly
have had the success it's had without the help of many developers and
users. As core developers, we bear responsibility to all users and
contributors to make sure all get as much benefit from the efforts of the
community as possible. Unfortunately we sometimes fail in this regard. Many
decisions are not simple and easy to make. There are literally many
thousands of users of OpenSimulator and we try to do what we can to make
their applications work. When we fail, sometimes forks occur. This is not
generally considered a bad thing; often forks bring about different
perspectives and useful innovations and improvements. We also need to
consider how contributions can be supported after the contributor(s) have
moved on. Sometimes we are successful at maintaining many of the more
desirable features; some will go stale and eventually be removed. So I hope
you can understand why there is some hesitation among some of the core team
about accepting patches which might interfere with existing functionality
and content. We're not singling you out; this happens with most
contributions. We have to use our judgement in each case and this can
unfortunately appear arbitrary or capricious to contributors. Hopefully the
end result is an improved OpenSimulator for as many users as possible and
not just for a few.
Personally I have no objection to the statistics modifications as I
understand them, which I admit is unfortunately not very well yet as I have
not had time to review the patches. I will likely be relying on the efforts
and opinions of other developers and users unless I see things getting out
of hand.
On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 4:39 AM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
douglas.maxwell3.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
> Good design principles reduce complexity while maintaining or increasing
> functionality. I am not in support of the idea of introducing multiplier
> variables into the ini file. This is for a number of reasons, one being
> there are a large number of multiplier variables that could be needed and
> the ini file is already complicated enough. Adding more variables and
> code, rather than fixing bad code is not a responsible solution.
>
>
>
> This is a gut-check opportunity for the devs. At some point in the past,
> somebody made the decision to artificially inflate these numbers and now
> (years later), that mistake has caught up with us. The longer you wait,
> the more painful the correction will be. It should be corrected, and any
> monitoring tools updated. It is the responsible course of action.
>
>
>
> We are attempting to help you by addressing physics and networking issues
> within the Open Simulator. Step Zero of this process is trusting the
> simulator statistics.
>
>
> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
> Science and Technology Manager
> Virtual World Strategic Applications
> U.S. Army Research Lab
> Human Research & Engineering Directorate
> Simulation & Training Technology Center
> (c) (407) 242-0209 <%28407%29%20242-0209>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org [
> opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org] on behalf of Michael Emory
> Cerquoni [nebadon2025 at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2015 8:59 PM
>
> *To:* opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
> What do you think about making the multiplier a modifiable variable in
> OpenSim.ini? This will allow anyone who wants to improve performance and
> use the stock #'s and in the meantime people can continue to use the code
> in a meaningful way without having to rewrite scripts and monitoring tools
> to continue testing other code that may be pushed into core, especially if
> the end goal is to get statistics to report back at the original numbers?
> I am mostly just trying to understand the end goal myself. If that is not
> possible I would suggest this work be moved into a development branch until
> we can get statistics back to the normal numbers again? Otherwise we are
> talking about locking the code down to all other development until this
> process is complete, and no one has discussed any kind of time frame for
> this level of changes to complete, I would hate to put a complete halt to
> development in order for this to happen. I am not against doing what you
> suggest, I just want to make sure we do it in the most efficient way
> possible. Would be good to hear what others in the core development have
> to say, hopefully Justin and Diva and Melanie, Misterblue, BlueWall, you
> guys can chime in here as well, as I am only one person here and for the
> record just voicing my own concerns, I am far from the final say on any of
> this stuff.
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
> douglas.maxwell3.civ at mail.mil
> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>> wrote:
>
>> Folks, before we can make any meaningful progress in performance
>> enhancements to the open simulator we have to be able to rely on the
>> simulator statistics. Currently they are (purposefully) misreported to
>> make the simulator look like it is performing better than it really is.
>> This is not acceptable if we are to dig in and begin to assist.
>>
>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>> Science and Technology Manager
>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>> Human Research & Engineering Directorate
>> Simulation & Training Technology Center
>> (c) (407) 242-0209
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> [
>> opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] on behalf of
>> Melanie [melanie at t-data.com
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>]
>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 5:56 PM
>> To: opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>
>> It is also my opinion that this change isn't fit for core. If and
>> when additional stats, like "real fps" and "physics engine fps" can
>> be shown in the viewer, then that would be good but the viewer stats
>> window should continue to show the fudged figures indefinitely. This
>> is because people don't only use scripts but also bots to do
>> monitoring and bots receive the same data the viewer receives.
>>
>> - Melanie
>>
>> On 24/04/2015 23:42, Michael Emory Cerquoni wrote:
>> > ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
>> > 11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be
>> using
>> > monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the
>> region,
>> > we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
>> > accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
>> > project as a whole.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
>> > nebadon2025 at gmail.com
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
>> >> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
>> >> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
>> >> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps
>> before
>> >> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test
>> this
>> >> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
>> >> douglas.maxwell3.civ at mail.mil
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> >>> Caveats: NONE
>> >>>
>> >>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces. The patch should
>> >>> still
>> >>> apply and work. We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>> >>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want
>> this
>> >>> done -
>> >>> let us know. Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>> >>>
>> >>> v/r -douglas
>> >>>
>> >>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>> >>> Science and Technology Manager
>> >>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>> >>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>> >>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>> >>> (c) (407) 242-0209
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> >>> [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] On Behalf Of
>> Michael Emory
>> >>> Cerquoni
>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>> >>> To: opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>> >>>
>> >>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for
>> testing,
>> >>> thanks
>> >>> guys!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <
>> mheilman at ist.ucf.edu
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Opensim Devs
>> >>>
>> >>> Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission
>> from
>> >>> project
>> >>> MOSES. Thanks.
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Michael Heilmann
>> >>> Research Associate
>> >>> Institute for Simulation and Training
>> >>> University of Central Florida
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> >>> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> >>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> >>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>>
>> >>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>> >>>
>> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> >>> Caveats: NONE
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> >>> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> >>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Opensim-dev mailing list
>> > Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>
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