[Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)

Dahlia Trimble dahliatrimble at gmail.com
Sat Apr 25 22:01:48 UTC 2015 

It is indeed unfortunate that questionable results may have been
propagated. Please bear in mind that few, if any, developers of
OpenSimulator have committed to producing a software which is intended for
such purposes. There are likely many artifices in OpenSimulator and in 3D
graphics applications in general. I would *strongly suggest* that those who
attempt to use the software for such purposes take responsibility for
understanding the applicability of this software for their purposes.

I will also suggest that a review of the license for OpenSimulator might be
in order, quoted here for your convenience:


 * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
 * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are
met:
 *     * Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
 *       notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
 *     * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyrightD
 *       notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
 *       documentation and/or other materials provided with the
distribution.
 *     * Neither the name of the OpenSimulator Project nor the
 *       names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote
products
 *       derived from this software without specific prior written
permission.
 *
 * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE DEVELOPERS ``AS IS'' AND ANY
 * EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED
 * WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE
 * DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY
 * DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL
DAMAGES
 * (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR
SERVICES;
 * LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED
AND
 * ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR
TORT
 * (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF
THIS
 * SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE."

On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 4:39 AM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
douglas.maxwell3.civ at mail.mil> wrote:

>  Good design principles reduce complexity while maintaining or increasing
> functionality.  I am not in support of the idea of introducing multiplier
> variables into the ini file.  This is for a number of reasons, one being
> there are a large number of multiplier variables that could be needed and
> the ini file is already complicated enough.  Adding more variables and
> code, rather than fixing bad code is not a responsible solution.
>
>
>
> This is a gut-check opportunity for the devs.  At some point in the past,
> somebody made the decision to artificially inflate these numbers and now
> (years later), that mistake has caught up with us.  The longer you wait,
> the more painful the correction will be.  It should be corrected, and any
> monitoring tools updated.  It is the responsible course of action.
>
>
>
> We are attempting to help you by addressing physics and networking issues
> within the Open Simulator.  Step Zero of this process is trusting the
> simulator statistics.
>
>
>  Douglas Maxwell, MSME
> Science and Technology Manager
> Virtual World Strategic Applications
> U.S. Army Research Lab
> Human Research & Engineering Directorate
> Simulation & Training Technology Center
> (c) (407) 242-0209 <%28407%29%20242-0209>
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org [
> opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org] on behalf of Michael Emory
> Cerquoni [nebadon2025 at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Friday, April 24, 2015 8:59 PM
>
> *To:* opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
>   What do you think about making the multiplier a modifiable variable in
> OpenSim.ini?  This will allow anyone who wants to improve performance and
> use the stock #'s and in the meantime people can continue to use the code
> in a meaningful way without having to rewrite scripts and monitoring tools
> to continue testing other code that may be pushed into core, especially if
> the end goal is to get statistics to report back at the original numbers?
> I am mostly just trying to understand the end goal myself.  If that is not
> possible I would suggest this work be moved into a development branch until
> we can get statistics back to the normal numbers again?  Otherwise we are
> talking about locking the code down to all other development until this
> process is complete, and no one has discussed any kind of time frame for
> this level of changes to complete, I would hate to put a complete halt to
> development in order for this to happen.  I am not against doing what you
> suggest, I just want to make sure we do it in the most efficient way
> possible.  Would be good to hear what others in the core development have
> to say, hopefully Justin and Diva and Melanie, Misterblue, BlueWall, you
> guys can chime in here as well, as I am only one person here and for the
> record just voicing my own concerns, I am far from the final say on any of
> this stuff.
>
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
> douglas.maxwell3.civ at mail.mil
> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>> wrote:
>
>> Folks, before we can make any meaningful progress in performance
>> enhancements to the open simulator we have to be able to rely on the
>> simulator statistics.  Currently they are (purposefully) misreported to
>> make the simulator look like it is performing better than it really is.
>> This is not acceptable if we are to dig in and begin to assist.
>>
>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>> Science and Technology Manager
>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>> Human Research & Engineering Directorate
>> Simulation & Training Technology Center
>> (c) (407) 242-0209
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx> [
>> opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] on behalf of
>> Melanie [melanie at t-data.com
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>]
>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 5:56 PM
>> To: opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>
>> It is also my opinion that this change isn't fit for core. If and
>> when additional stats, like "real fps" and "physics engine fps" can
>> be shown in the viewer, then that would be good but the viewer stats
>> window should continue to show the fudged figures indefinitely. This
>> is because people don't only use scripts but also bots to do
>> monitoring and bots receive the same data the viewer receives.
>>
>> - Melanie
>>
>> On 24/04/2015 23:42, Michael Emory Cerquoni wrote:
>> > ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
>> > 11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be
>> using
>> > monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the
>> region,
>> > we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
>> > accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
>> > project as a whole.
>> >
>> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
>> > nebadon2025 at gmail.com
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
>> >> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
>> >> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
>> >> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps
>> before
>> >> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test
>> this
>> >> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
>> >> douglas.maxwell3.civ at mail.mil
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> >>> Caveats: NONE
>> >>>
>> >>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces.  The patch should
>> >>> still
>> >>> apply and work.  We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>> >>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want
>> this
>> >>> done -
>> >>> let us know.  Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>> >>>
>> >>> v/r -douglas
>> >>>
>> >>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>> >>> Science and Technology Manager
>> >>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>> >>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>> >>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>> >>> (c) (407) 242-0209
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>> From: opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> >>> [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>] On Behalf Of
>> Michael Emory
>> >>> Cerquoni
>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>> >>> To: opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>> >>>
>> >>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for
>> testing,
>> >>> thanks
>> >>> guys!
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <
>> mheilman at ist.ucf.edu
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>         Opensim Devs
>> >>>
>> >>>         Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission
>> from
>> >>> project
>> >>> MOSES.  Thanks.
>> >>>
>> >>>         --
>> >>>         Michael Heilmann
>> >>>         Research Associate
>> >>>         Institute for Simulation and Training
>> >>>         University of Central Florida
>> >>>
>> >>>         _______________________________________________
>> >>>         Opensim-dev mailing list
>> >>>         Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> >>>         http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> >>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>>
>> >>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>> >>>
>> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>> >>> Caveats: NONE
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> >>> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> >>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Opensim-dev mailing list
>> > Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
>> > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> <https://web-mont05.mail.mil/owa/UrlBlockedError.aspx>
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>
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