[Opensim-dev] thinking about a viewer
Ovi Chris Rouly
maelzel at ieee.org
Tue Aug 5 11:42:16 UTC 2014
Dear Devs,
I have been needing a viewer that is compact, has only MINIMAL features
(strong log-in "key" open/run protection, prompt for iNet-target address
input, 8-dof navigation [frt,rgt,fwd,rev,up,dwn,yaw-l, yaw-r], TP-prompting,
display of "other" avatar name, runnable versions for Windows/Apple, and
very very little else) FOREVER! Such a viewer would allow me to give my
Sponsors view-only access to my work. I would pay a license fee per copy
too.
Thank you for listening.
Chris
Dept. of Comp. Soc. Sci.
George Mason University
>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Today's Topics:
1. thinking about a viewer (Mister Blue)
2. Re: thinking about a viewer (Frank Nichols)
3. Re: thinking about a viewer (Butch Arnold)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 18:08:44 -0700
From: Mister Blue <misterblue at misterblue.com>
To: opensim-dev <opensim-dev at opensimulator.org>
Subject: [Opensim-dev] thinking about a viewer
Message-ID:
<CAJ=JWqwXxAVFbX+PwX34U0_EP7FhiYOe-=Xwc06EM8vme6FtkA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I've been seriously thinking about creating a new viewer project. But with
Maria's survey[1] and all the different virtual world announcements
happening and the lively OpenSimulator vs Unity discussion on the
opensim-user list, I'd like to open up the discussion to the OpenSimulator
development community[2].
LL is making a new world and viewer (closed and proprietary as far as I
know). HighFidelity is making a new world and viewer (open source with
commercial 'grid services'). Unity 5 will have a multi-platform web viewer
and a new multi-user backend (pricing not announced). There are various
wonderful open source virtual world projects (realXtend, Virtual World
Framework, ...) as well as many emerging technologies (xml3d, html5,
asm.js). There are several forks of OpenSimulator (Aurora, ArribaSim, ...)
that have made many enhancements to the base system. Add to that several
successful virtual worlds build on OpenSimulator (inWorldz, Anvination,
Kitely, ...) as well as a few packaged distributions of OpenSimulator (Diva,
...). Add to that the many SL/OpenSim third party viewers based on the LL
viewer. And that's just in our sphere. There is much more happening in the
gaming and education and training communities.
So, what could a new viewer add to the mix? Whatever a new view does, it
approaches the question of what OpenSimulator should be three years from
now.
For me, there are two basic choices[3]: evolutionary change or revolutionary
change.
Evolutionary change says to build on existing OpenSimulator. Make due with
the existing LLLP (Linden Lab Legacy Protocol) and improve vehicles, make
installation and use easier and add an easier to use and improve viewer.
Revolutionary change would be striking off on a new virtual world
architecture. It could have LLLP support but only for downward compatibility
and to keep that community and content. But other questions
arise: How would one build a viewer/virtual world where a HiFi avatar could
stand next to a SL avatar? How could content be delivered to a viewer so it
is displayable but is not in the original, copyable form? How to leverage
the distribution and power of 'the cloud'[4]? How could one make
hypergridable grids across the many virtual worlds?
What do you think? Evolution or revolution?
-- mb
[1]
http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2014/08/survey-better-vehicles-search-most-
wanted-in-opensim/
[2] I see this expanding to other forums eventually.
[3] With a lot of gray area in between
[4] I'm always amazed by Google Maps -- it displays the map with traffic
overlays and I can zoom in and out with almost immediate response. Why can't
a virtual world viewer do that?
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Message: 2
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2014 22:06:07 -0400
From: Frank Nichols <j.frank.nichols at gmail.com>
To: opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] thinking about a viewer
Message-ID:
<CAK2GOPddSFC6DcGgUi44gTZY1VO6TUTs+3LsK5QCz0TNhnf6og at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
I am all for revolutionary, but the issue would be that a method of bringing
legacy users along for the ride "easily". I do think that running on
"enhanced" 10 year old technology is not in our best interest for 10 years
from now. The longer we wait to upgrade, the bigger the bump is going to be
and the more people that are going to bail and move on to one of the
alternatives.
What OS has is the ability for "anyone" to run a sim on their machine at
home to "anyone" renting a server(s) to run a grid of almost any practical
size. You can start small and get your feet wet and grow and how you grow is
up to you. Most other solutions (except forks) don't offer that
accessibility. I would hope that a new viewer would bring with it new server
functionality - to solve some issues. For example, probably 95% [SWAG] of
support issues for new users trying to run their sim at home revolves around
the modem/router issues... Would be nice if it wasn't so.
On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Mister Blue <misterblue at misterblue.com>
wrote:
> I've been seriously thinking about creating a new viewer project. But
> with Maria's survey[1] and all the different virtual world
> announcements happening and the lively OpenSimulator vs Unity
> discussion on the opensim-user list, I'd like to open up the
> discussion to the OpenSimulator development community[2].
>
> LL is making a new world and viewer (closed and proprietary as far as
> I know). HighFidelity is making a new world and viewer (open source
> with commercial 'grid services'). Unity 5 will have a multi-platform
> web viewer and a new multi-user backend (pricing not announced). There
> are various wonderful open source virtual world projects (realXtend,
> Virtual World Framework, ...) as well as many emerging technologies
> (xml3d, html5, asm.js). There are several forks of OpenSimulator
> (Aurora, ArribaSim, ...) that have made many enhancements to the base
> system. Add to that several successful virtual worlds build on
> OpenSimulator (inWorldz, Anvination, Kitely, ...) as well as a few
> packaged distributions of OpenSimulator (Diva, ...). Add to that the
> many SL/OpenSim third party viewers based on the LL viewer. And that's
> just in our sphere. There is much more happening in the gaming and
education and training communities.
>
> So, what could a new viewer add to the mix? Whatever a new view does,
> it approaches the question of what OpenSimulator should be three years
> from now.
>
> For me, there are two basic choices[3]: evolutionary change or
> revolutionary change.
>
> Evolutionary change says to build on existing OpenSimulator. Make due
> with the existing LLLP (Linden Lab Legacy Protocol) and improve
> vehicles, make installation and use easier and add an easier to use and
improve viewer.
>
> Revolutionary change would be striking off on a new virtual world
> architecture. It could have LLLP support but only for downward
> compatibility and to keep that community and content. But other
> questions
> arise: How would one build a viewer/virtual world where a HiFi avatar
> could stand next to a SL avatar? How could content be delivered to a
> viewer so it is displayable but is not in the original, copyable form?
> How to leverage the distribution and power of 'the cloud'[4]? How
> could one make hypergridable grids across the many virtual worlds?
>
> What do you think? Evolution or revolution?
>
> -- mb
>
> [1]
> http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2014/08/survey-better-vehicles-search
> -most-wanted-in-opensim/ [2] I see this expanding to other forums
> eventually.
> [3] With a lot of gray area in between [4] I'm always amazed by Google
> Maps -- it displays the map with traffic overlays and I can zoom in
> and out with almost immediate response. Why can't a virtual world
> viewer do that?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>
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Message: 3
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 23:55:06 -0400
From: Butch Arnold <butch.arnold at 3rdrockgrid.com>
To: opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] thinking about a viewer
Message-ID: <53E0559A.5080905 at 3rdrockgrid.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
+1 Revolutionary
WebGL?
On 8/4/2014 10:06 PM, Frank Nichols wrote:
> I am all for revolutionary, but the issue would be that a method of
> bringing legacy users along for the ride "easily". I do think that
> running on "enhanced" 10 year old technology is not in our best
> interest for 10 years from now. The longer we wait to upgrade, the
> bigger the bump is going to be and the more people that are going to
> bail and move on to one of the alternatives.
>
> What OS has is the ability for "anyone" to run a sim on their machine
> at home to "anyone" renting a server(s) to run a grid of almost any
> practical size. You can start small and get your feet wet and grow and
> how you grow is up to you. Most other solutions (except forks) don't
> offer that accessibility. I would hope that a new viewer would bring
> with it new server functionality - to solve some issues. For example,
> probably 95% [SWAG] of support issues for new users trying to run
> their sim at home revolves around the modem/router issues... Would be
> nice if it wasn't so.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 4, 2014 at 9:08 PM, Mister Blue <misterblue at misterblue.com
> <mailto:misterblue at misterblue.com>> wrote:
>
> I've been seriously thinking about creating a new viewer project.
> But with Maria's survey[1] and all the different virtual world
> announcements happening and the lively OpenSimulator vs Unity
> discussion on the opensim-user list, I'd like to open up the
> discussion to the OpenSimulator development community[2].
>
> LL is making a new world and viewer (closed and proprietary as far
> as I know). HighFidelity is making a new world and viewer (open
> source with commercial 'grid services'). Unity 5 will have a
> multi-platform web viewer and a new multi-user backend (pricing
> not announced). There are various wonderful open source virtual
> world projects (realXtend, Virtual World Framework, ...) as well
> as many emerging technologies (xml3d, html5, asm.js). There are
> several forks of OpenSimulator (Aurora, ArribaSim, ...) that have
> made many enhancements to the base system. Add to that several
> successful virtual worlds build on OpenSimulator (inWorldz,
> Anvination, Kitely, ...) as well as a few packaged distributions
> of OpenSimulator (Diva, ...). Add to that the many SL/OpenSim
> third party viewers based on the LL viewer. And that's just in our
> sphere. There is much more happening in the gaming and education
> and training communities.
>
> So, what could a new viewer add to the mix? Whatever a new view
> does, it approaches the question of what OpenSimulator should be
> three years from now.
>
> For me, there are two basic choices[3]: evolutionary change or
> revolutionary change.
>
> Evolutionary change says to build on existing OpenSimulator. Make
> due with the existing LLLP (Linden Lab Legacy Protocol) and
> improve vehicles, make installation and use easier and add an
> easier to use and improve viewer.
>
> Revolutionary change would be striking off on a new virtual world
> architecture. It could have LLLP support but only for downward
> compatibility and to keep that community and content. But other
> questions arise: How would one build a viewer/virtual world where
> a HiFi avatar could stand next to a SL avatar? How could content
> be delivered to a viewer so it is displayable but is not in the
> original, copyable form? How to leverage the distribution and
> power of 'the cloud'[4]? How could one make hypergridable grids
> across the many virtual worlds?
>
> What do you think? Evolution or revolution?
>
> -- mb
>
> [1]
>
http://www.hypergridbusiness.com/2014/08/survey-better-vehicles-search-most-
wanted-in-opensim/
> [2] I see this expanding to other forums eventually.
> [3] With a lot of gray area in between
> [4] I'm always amazed by Google Maps -- it displays the map with
> traffic overlays and I can zoom in and out with almost immediate
> response. Why can't a virtual world viewer do that?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org <mailto:Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org>
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
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