[Opensim-dev] [linux-elitists] Mono considered harmful

[James Stallings II]

My Bad, looks like I'm off the must be moderated list.
My latest 0.02$L on the topic:

Seems like we should at least consider an implementation in an alternate
language as a sort of backup.

Maybe something much less a part of microsoft. Ironically I find this a
pretty disturbing idea, having come to greatly appreciate c# on it's merits
as a programming language.

Cheers
James


On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 7:24 AM, James Stallings II <
james.stallings at gmail.com> wrote:

> I'd love to participate in this conversation further, but for some reason I
> was placed on a 'must be moderated list' for participating in a discussion
> that other devs clearly seem to think worthwhile.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 2:22 AM, Frisby, Adam <adam at deepthink.com.au>wrote:
>
>>  No, Rotor predates Mono. It’s old and somewhat non-functional now.
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:
>> opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] *On Behalf Of *Dzonatas
>> *Sent:* Sunday, 5 April 2009 10:02 PM
>>
>> *To:* opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] [linux-elitists] Mono considered harmful
>>
>>
>>
>> Do you mean the one they made mainly for IronPython and IronRuby? I can
>> dig up the mail for that on the IronPython list, but it is mainly to keep
>> OSS source out of internal Microsoft boundaries where they want to make sure
>> there is no mix between internal code and external OSS code, as their stated
>> intention.
>>
>>
>> Frisby, Adam wrote:
>>
>> It's also worth noting that MS released a somewhat FOSS (I'm a little unsure which of their licenses they used and whether it's an OSI one or not) implementation of .NET for Linux called 'Rotor'.
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev <opensim-dev>-
>>
>> bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Frisby, Adam
>>
>> Sent: Sunday, 5 April 2009 8:59 PM
>>
>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] [linux-elitists] Mono considered harmful
>>
>>
>>
>> Yeah, I did miss reasonable fees.
>>
>>
>>
>> However, it is widely believed that the Novell/MS pact disclaims these.
>>
>> I would highly suggest bringing this one over to the Mono mailing list,
>>
>> they have a lot more experience dealing with these claims.
>>
>>
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>>
>> From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev <opensim-dev>-
>>
>> bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Eugen Leitl
>>
>> Sent: Sunday, 5 April 2009 11:34 AM
>>
>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] [linux-elitists] Mono considered harmful
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Forwarded message from Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> <rick at linuxmafia.com> -----
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> <rick at linuxmafia.com>
>>
>> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 08:44:08 -0700
>>
>> To: linux-elitists at zgp.org
>>
>> Subject: Re: [linux-elitists] [Opensim-dev] Mono considered harmful
>>
>> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Eugen Leitl (eugen at leitl.org):
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> IANAL, does below explanation by Adam hold water?
>>
>>
>>
>> You don't have to be a lawyer to know that it's rubbish on two
>>
>>
>>
>> separate
>>
>>
>>
>> grounds.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yes, C# is an ECMA standard.  However:
>>
>>
>>
>> (1) It doesn't follow that ECMA International has any power to
>>
>>
>>
>> "forbid"
>>
>>
>>
>> patent holders from suing anyone over anything, let alone patent
>>
>> infringement.  I mean, think about it:  Does Adam think ECMA
>>
>> International is Microsoft Corporation's daddy?  That it owns 51% of
>>
>> the
>>
>> issued and outstanding common stock?  At worst, it might be possible
>>
>> for
>>
>> ECMA International to be very deeply disappointed in Microsoft's
>>
>> behaviour at some future point, decertify particular things, and
>>
>> otherwise carry out mild actions that _are_ within its power.
>>
>>
>>
>> More important:
>>
>>
>>
>> (2) In any event, ECMA International does not even _profess_ to
>>
>> disapprove of suing patent infringers.  It merely has a "Code of
>>
>> Conduct
>>
>> in Patent Matters"
>>
>> (http://www.ecma-international.org/memento/codeofconduct.htm),
>>
>>
>>
>>  setting
>>
>>
>>
>> ECMA policy that the group will approve standards only if it has
>>
>> written
>>
>> assurances from applicant that applicable patents will be licensed on
>>
>>
>>
>> a
>>
>>
>>
>> "reasonable, non-discriminatory basis".  (That term of art is
>>
>>
>>
>> typically
>>
>>
>>
>> referred to as RAND terms.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Has Adam Frisby completely missed the last decade of standards
>>
>>
>>
>> warfare?
>>
>>
>>
>> The proprietary camp has repeatedly attempted to get the World Wide
>>
>>
>>
>> Web
>>
>>
>>
>> Consortium to start accepting "RAND" patent licensing, instead of
>>
>> requiring that applicants certify that covering patents will be
>>
>> _royalty-free_.  This arm-twisting failed, because of diligent
>>
>> focussing
>>
>> of attention from open source people.  W3C has stuck to its guns and
>>
>> insistend on royalty-free patent licensing.
>>
>>
>>
>> To spell it out:  "Reasonable" means obligatory patent royalty
>>
>> payments.
>>
>> Which means no open source implementations of those standards.
>>
>>
>>
>> And that is one reason why ECMA standards can be (and often are)
>>
>>
>>
>> issued
>>
>>
>>
>> on terms hostile to open source, whereas W3C standards are reliable
>>
>>
>>
>> and
>>
>>
>>
>> open-source-friendly.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sheesh.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Cheers,              Híggledy-pìggledy / XML programmers
>>
>> Rick Moen            Try to escape those / I-eighteen-N woes;
>>
>> rick at linuxmafia.com  Incontrovertibly / What we need more of is
>>
>> McQ!  (4x80)         Unicode weenies and / François Yergeaus.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>> linux-elitists mailing list
>>
>> linux-elitists at zgp.org
>>
>> http://allium.zgp.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/linux-elitists
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- End forwarded message -----
>>
>> --
>>
>> Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org" <http://leitl.org>>leitl</a> http://leitl.org
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>>
>> ICBM: 48.07100, 11.36820 http://www.ativel.com http://postbiota.org
>>
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>>
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>
>
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