[Opensim-dev] [linux-elitists] Mono considered harmful

Mon Apr 6 12:24:46 UTC 2009

I'd love to participate in this conversation further, but for some reason I
was placed on a 'must be moderated list' for participating in a discussion
that other devs clearly seem to think worthwhile.

On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 2:22 AM, Frisby, Adam <adam at deepthink.com.au> wrote:

>  No, Rotor predates Mono. It’s old and somewhat non-functional now.
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> *From:* opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:
> opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] *On Behalf Of *Dzonatas
> *Sent:* Sunday, 5 April 2009 10:02 PM
>
> *To:* opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] [linux-elitists] Mono considered harmful
>
>
>
> Do you mean the one they made mainly for IronPython and IronRuby? I can dig
> up the mail for that on the IronPython list, but it is mainly to keep OSS
> source out of internal Microsoft boundaries where they want to make sure
> there is no mix between internal code and external OSS code, as their stated
> intention.
>
>
> Frisby, Adam wrote:
>
> It's also worth noting that MS released a somewhat FOSS (I'm a little unsure which of their licenses they used and whether it's an OSI one or not) implementation of .NET for Linux called 'Rotor'.
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev <opensim-dev>-
>
> bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Frisby, Adam
>
> Sent: Sunday, 5 April 2009 8:59 PM
>
> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] [linux-elitists] Mono considered harmful
>
>
>
> Yeah, I did miss reasonable fees.
>
>
>
> However, it is widely believed that the Novell/MS pact disclaims these.
>
> I would highly suggest bringing this one over to the Mono mailing list,
>
> they have a lot more experience dealing with these claims.
>
>
>
> Adam
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev <opensim-dev>-
>
> bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Eugen Leitl
>
> Sent: Sunday, 5 April 2009 11:34 AM
>
> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] [linux-elitists] Mono considered harmful
>
>
>
> ----- Forwarded message from Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> <rick at linuxmafia.com> -----
>
>
>
> From: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com> <rick at linuxmafia.com>
>
> Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 08:44:08 -0700
>
> To: linux-elitists at zgp.org
>
> Subject: Re: [linux-elitists] [Opensim-dev] Mono considered harmful
>
> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.11+cvs20060403
>
>
>
> Quoting Eugen Leitl (eugen at leitl.org):
>
>
>
>
>
> IANAL, does below explanation by Adam hold water?
>
>
>
> You don't have to be a lawyer to know that it's rubbish on two
>
>
>
> separate
>
>
>
> grounds.
>
>
>
> Yes, C# is an ECMA standard.  However:
>
>
>
> (1) It doesn't follow that ECMA International has any power to
>
>
>
> "forbid"
>
>
>
> patent holders from suing anyone over anything, let alone patent
>
> infringement.  I mean, think about it:  Does Adam think ECMA
>
> International is Microsoft Corporation's daddy?  That it owns 51% of
>
> the
>
> issued and outstanding common stock?  At worst, it might be possible
>
> for
>
> ECMA International to be very deeply disappointed in Microsoft's
>
> behaviour at some future point, decertify particular things, and
>
> otherwise carry out mild actions that _are_ within its power.
>
>
>
> More important:
>
>
>
> (2) In any event, ECMA International does not even _profess_ to
>
> disapprove of suing patent infringers.  It merely has a "Code of
>
> Conduct
>
> in Patent Matters"
>
> (http://www.ecma-international.org/memento/codeofconduct.htm),
>
>
>
> setting
>
>
>
> ECMA policy that the group will approve standards only if it has
>
> written
>
> assurances from applicant that applicable patents will be licensed on
>
>
>
> a
>
>
>
> "reasonable, non-discriminatory basis".  (That term of art is
>
>
>
> typically
>
>
>
> referred to as RAND terms.)
>
>
>
> Has Adam Frisby completely missed the last decade of standards
>
>
>
> warfare?
>
>
>
> The proprietary camp has repeatedly attempted to get the World Wide
>
>
>
> Web
>
>
>
> Consortium to start accepting "RAND" patent licensing, instead of
>
> requiring that applicants certify that covering patents will be
>
> _royalty-free_.  This arm-twisting failed, because of diligent
>
> focussing
>
> of attention from open source people.  W3C has stuck to its guns and
>
> insistend on royalty-free patent licensing.
>
>
>
> To spell it out:  "Reasonable" means obligatory patent royalty
>
> payments.
>
> Which means no open source implementations of those standards.
>
>
>
> And that is one reason why ECMA standards can be (and often are)
>
>
>
> issued
>
>
>
> on terms hostile to open source, whereas W3C standards are reliable
>
>
>
> and
>
>
>
> open-source-friendly.
>
>
>
> Sheesh.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Cheers,              Híggledy-pìggledy / XML programmers
>
> Rick Moen            Try to escape those / I-eighteen-N woes;
>
> rick at linuxmafia.com  Incontrovertibly / What we need more of is
>
> McQ!  (4x80)         Unicode weenies and / François Yergeaus.
>
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>
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>
>
>
> ----- End forwarded message -----
>
> --
>
> Eugen* Leitl <a href="http://leitl.org" <http://leitl.org>>leitl</a> http://leitl.org
>
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