[Opensim-dev] Hypergrid patch
Cristina Videira Lopes
lopes at ics.uci.edu
Tue Nov 18 18:56:11 UTC 2008
This is all good. Peer review is a big part of my job, and always a good
thing.
Justin Clark-Casey wrote:
> Sure, let's fix this to r7379.
>
> Realistically, this is probably going to take somewhat longer than a few days. Other core members haven't really had
> much of a chance to comment yet. Ideally I think we would take a weekend to give people who are busy with non-OpenSim
> jobs during the week to take a look.
>
> Also, I can only devote a certain fraction of my time to this, so it may take until the end of the week anyway if I'm
> working on my own. Of course, any other assistance is very welcome. What I feel we really need is a short summary from
> a third party on both the architectural features (pros and cons - there are almost always some cons with everything) and
> an assessment of the implementation itself. Among other things, this would help us determine that we're happy to
> support it in the future. For instance, is there an expectation that if I make a grid change, I now need to test it in
> standalone, grid *and* hypergrid mode? We already see these issues with the bundled MSSQL database support where most
> core developers only change MySQL and maybe SQLite (though luckily we now have some excellent people like
> StrawberryFride and RuudL to help fix it up).
>
> I feel that we should also be cautious because we have already had instances where flawed architectural changes have
> made it in to OpenSim without any prior analysis or discussion. These cause consternation for a while until they can be
> absorbed or pushed aside. I think spending a bit of time upfront on such big changes could save us a lot of time and
> pain later on.
>
>
> Cristina Videira Lopes wrote:
>
>> OK, I will do that, and thanks for looking into this.
>> Can we please fix the assessment of the hypergrid to 7379 for the next
>> day or so. Otherwise it's like trying to change the oil on a moving car :-)
>> Obviously, if this makes it to core, I will make a patch for whatever
>> head that will be, and taking into account whatever feedback is sent;
>> it's just the assessment process that I would like to fix, if possible.
>>
>> Justin Clark-Casey wrote:
>>
>>> I tried to apply the two patches and prebuild.xml in http://opensimulator.org/mantis/view.php?id=2640 to r7379 today,
>>> intending to fix up the LLSD name change issues.
>>>
>>> However, there are various issues.
>>>
>>> 1. The original hypergrid-1.patch (which contains the bulk of the code) appears to list all diffs twice. So every file
>>> ends up containing two copies of everything.
>>>
>>> 2. The second smaller follow up hypergrid-app.patch does not apply cleanly over hypergrid-1.patch.
>>>
>>> 3. The prebuild.xml does not list dependences in the correct order. For instance, HGOpenSimNode in
>>> OpenSim.Region.Application has a dependency on HyperGrid which is only built after this package. You may have to do
>>> some work to resolve circular dependencies. Please do a clean build to make sure everything resolves correctly.
>>>
>>> Please could you fix these issues (and the LLSD -> OSD changes) and produce a new single patch containing all the code.
>>> I recommend simply using svn diff >my.patch from the command line on cygwin/linux/mac if Tortoise SVN is playing up.
>>> Then we can evaluate this properly.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Cristina Videira Lopes wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> I'm glad this is getting a generally positive reaction. I believe in the
>>>> hypergrid, or something like it, strongly enough that I'm going to stick
>>>> around and do whatever necessary to see it, or something like it, go
>>>> into the box.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously, I agree with everything said here about revising things
>>>> properly and making sure the edges aren't too rough. I will appreciate
>>>> one or more of your 'older' ones (he!) looking carefully into it.
>>>> Generally, the hypergrid code is cleanly separated from the core code,
>>>> but let me tell you what I see as the main ugliness of this contribution:
>>>>
>>>> The hypergrid touches heavily on Communications and, lightly, on
>>>> Environment.Scenes. Communications isn't as well componentized as other
>>>> things are; for example, the IClientAPI is a wonderful piece of the
>>>> architecture! Unlike that, the construction code for Communications is
>>>> hard-coded in OpenSimBase. Because of that, I had to subclass OpenSim,
>>>> which is very ugly. If there's a way of making Communications a
>>>> component that can be specified in the config file, that would be great!
>>>> Not just for the hypergrid, but it would open the door for
>>>> experimentation with other alternative interoperability ideas.
>>>>
>>>> For the extension on Environment.Scenes, again, the Scene-related
>>>> classes are being hard-coded in OpenSimBase. If there's a way of
>>>> spec-ing that outside, it would be great.
>>>>
>>>> I know how to quick-fix both of these, but I think this probably needs a
>>>> solid fix from those of you who have been making the wonderful job of
>>>> componentizing opensim, rather than a quick fix from me.
>>>>
>>>> Crista
>>>>
>>>> Stefan Andersson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> As much as I share that sentiment, and despite not having looked at
>>>>> the patch, it's usually a good idea to consider splitting large
>>>>> patches up into more of babysteps - 'process' over 'product' so to speak.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ie, is it possible for the hypergrid posse to work with core over time
>>>>> to gradually change core into something suitable for them?
>>>>>
>>>>> Most oftenly to let the code transform in steps leads to the code
>>>>> itself 'accumulating wisdom' - which leads to greated flexibility and
>>>>> encapsulation. (If it's done with proper love and care in each step) -
>>>>> and also lets core + hypergrid communicate over small chunks of code,
>>>>> instead of big whoppers. (Historically, big whoppers either rot or
>>>>> create havoc, but undesired outcomes)
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Stefan Andersson
>>>>> Tribal Media AB
>>>>>
>>>>> Join the 3d web revolution : http://tribalnet.se/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2008 08:08:32 -0500
>>>>>> From: sdague at gmail.com
>>>>>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Hypergrid patch
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Justin Clark-Casey wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dahlia Trimble wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Thanks, that one built properly against 7364, but 7376 (head at
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> the time
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I tried) complained about some missing references to LLSD. Seems
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> a patch
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> set of this size can go stale quite quickly so hopefully a few of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> other core devs can chime in real soon and give it a nod... and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> then we
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> can work together to commit it. :)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think this situation was somewhat unusual with the libOMV update
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> - the names of fairly fundamental classes do not
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> change every day.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think with a large patch the submitter has to accept a certain
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> amount of pain in resyncing it to the current trunk -
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> this in itself demonstrates how serious they (and we) are about
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> supporting it. There is a need, I feel, to consider
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> this carefully and not rush in to a decision. This patch requires
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> evaluation on both a raw technical and an
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> architectural level - an evaluation that I hope to start helping
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>> with later on today.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm +1 for the idea, I'll defer to Justin's judgement on implementation
>>>>>> here because I won't have enough time to dig through this of late.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I definitely think getting hypergrid, or something like it, into core is
>>>>>> a good thing. Letting opensim grids interconnect out of the box is
>>>>>> something that has always been on our vision list.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Sean
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Sean Dague / Neas Bade
>>>>>> sdague at gmail.com
>>>>>> http://dague.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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