[Opensim-dev] Thoughts....

Tue Mar 4 22:52:12 UTC 2008

Client-side asset storage (inventory, I assume) makes very little sense to
me. It would mean that I could only login from one computer; I have enough
trouble already managing my documents while making use of 5 computers at the
same time. 3rd-party inventory storage makes a lot more sense, and that's
more or less what realXtend has recently done. 

You can do copybot with any client, not just libsl. 

"cute" is how I put it when I want to say nice things about LL's fantasy
layer :-) 

It looks like you and I have very different perspectives on the use of
virtual worlds, the success of Linden Lab, and everything else. So let me
tell you what my corner of the world looks like. 

In most communities that I am a member of, SL is seen in a very negative
light, almost reputation-damaging; tolerated, but certainly not "serious".
That particular use of virtual worlds - for sex, role playing, socializing,
branding, etc., which have been the major drivers of the SL economy (not
IP!, which has been an inconsequent buzz word, and I can tell you why, if
you ask) -- is something that I respect from a distance, but not really
interested in. I did, however, see in it the potential for a general purpose
immersive 3D platform with which lots of other more interesting things can
be done (interesting for me, of course); things that have tangible
consequences in the real world. Who cares about the HUD-controlled penis
when a) there's a physical one around, and b) you can actually plan the
relocation of an entire real-world city to a new location, and share the
plan with its citizens in an immersive manner? The real world is a lot more
interesting to me; OpenSim can be a powerful tool to improve it.

The great thing about OpenSim is that it can be a lot of things. 

Diva / Crista

From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of The Burnman
Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 1:24 PM
To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Thoughts....

On Tue, Mar 4, 2008 at 3:47 PM, Cristina Videira Lopes <lopes at ics.uci.edu>
wrote:

 Hello Christine,

Burnman,

Technically your comments are off, as Michael already pointed out. They are
so off that I think they are directed at the Open Sourced LL viewer,  i.e.
at the ability for clients to get complete information about the objects
inworld to the point of being able to store them locally and to replicate
them. Note that this has nothing to do with OpenSim, strictly speaking. But
let me comment on that.

Actually, there has been discussion in the OpenSim IRC channels as well as
on this list about using client side asset storage for users to move from
grid to grid with their inventory.  THAT is what I was discussing.  That
DOES have to do with OpenSim.  The libSL fiasco with CopyBot has nothing to
do with what I am discussing.

All clients get that information, or else they wouldn't be able to render
it; there is no way around that:  a representation of the couch you see on
your screen must be sent to your computer, period. In a context where you do
want to show your objects to the world, ensuring that people don't use the
LL viewer to "steal" them is impossible with technology alone.

 I am aware of that.  It's the same with a web page.  The browser can't
display what it can't see.  Though PHP does a wonderful job to prevent
people seeing the websites source code, since HTML is passed to the browser.
This is one of the benefits of scripting in Second Life.  It's run server
side, stored server side, and the client doesn't get access to scripts it
doesn't have permission to see.

Other contexts are possible, however. One could add a PGP feature in which
all inworld objects would be encrypted with their owner's private key, so
they looked like garbage for everyone, except for those clients who had the
object owner's public key. There's a neat research project right there! I
bet it could be added very easily :-)

While the solution is technically feasible, what sense would it make to go
around the world seeing garbage everywhere?? Plus anyone who wanted to see
the decrypted objects would have to use an extended version of the LL
viewer, one that does decryption. Not to mention the added performance
overhead. . Again, I doubt massive adoption, but this could definitely be
done, technically.

I am not sure how effective encryption would be...  but it is an interesting
thing to ponder.

I'm on the camp that thinks that these kinds of *technological* solutions
are silly, paranoid, and ultimately unreliable, because given enough
motivation to break the encryption, it will be broken. But at the same time
I have a lot of sympathy for your position. One cute thing about LL's SL is
that it enabled ordinary people to suddenly feel like famous entrepreneurs
and millionaires, simply by creating virtual objects that other people want.

Cute?  :D  SL gained most of it's popularity because of that "cute" little
concept.  And while most people don't make that much money with their little
virtual ventures...  many of them at least cover their own expenses.  That's
more than most can say about their entertainment.  The whole "own IP rights
to your creations, have a business in SL" thing is probably where most of
LL's success has come from.

This is part of the fantasy-game designed by LL, along with the forced
pseudonyms, the Linden "dollars", etc. I understand you want to protect that
feeling, and someone ought to protect it. I sincerely hope that will survive
in some grids, because it's empowering! Technology is the wrong approach to
do it, though, it has to be something else.

 I don't see how textures, or prims for that matter, will be truly protected
with OpenSim... nor do I think with Second Life now that open-source is
making it so much easier to steal people's IP.  Scripts, however, are
another matter.  Client side storage negates what protection they currently
have, however, which was my concern from the start of this conversation.

However, if these fantasies are all there is to the metaverse, we'll be in
really bad shape. We might as well wrap-up OpenSim altogether, and let LL
continue to do its thing.

While you may not really see people's little web ventures as more than
fantasies...  they are the driving force behind the expansion of LL's grid.
Some of those "fantasies" are comprised of people paying thousands of
dollars per month in tier and making profit beyond their cost as a result of
their efforts.  Should be interesting to see what happens to those people
and the money they bring to SL as time moves on and projects like OS
progress.

<off topic> 

The thought of going around a virtual world where everything is garbage due
to encryption is a powerful, almost artistic, visualization of real-world
paranoia and distrust. Picasso's Guernica comes to mind.

</off topic>

Hmmm...  I think a better example of real-world paranoia and distrust would
be television commercials.  Products sold based on fear.  You're not pretty
enough unless you wear this make-up... you're not a man if you have grey
hair... you're less of a person if your fat... etc etc.  Protecting one's
own property from people who are going to try and steal it one way or the
other is human nature.  Dying your hair is paranoia.  :)

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