[Opensim-users] Announcement of inventory tool (MyInventory), mostly of interest to grid operators/grid nauts

Mon Nov 19 20:00:11 UTC 2012

Fleep's grid is an exeption to the rule.     The fact of the matter is, the
copyright holder is not automatically giving users the right to reupload
content to other places.    The copyright holder has to specifically
license that fact.    It cannot be implied.   Therefore, since there's no
way for the copyright holder to license that intent technically, there are
only illegitimate uses currently.  If fleep says that anything on fleep's
grid is copyable anywhere, then cool, make the tool only 'download' stuff
from fleep's grid (like dahlia suggested, a white list).

Regards

Teravus

On Mon, Nov 19, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Doug Danforth <drdoug.pennell at gmail.com>wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> Well said. Your description of a legitimate use is spot on. Certainly
> there can be illegitimate uses, but that in and of itself doesn't negate
> the fact that legitimate uses exist. If I create a thing on my grid, and
> this tool allows me to take that thing over to Fleep's grid, that seems
> pretty legitimate to me.
>
> A tool that allows for the convenient management of allowable inventory
> across grids is sorely needed. That a users things should travel with the
> user seems to my tiny brain as being a no-brainer :-).
>
> Doug Danforth
> On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 2:31 PM, Fleep Tuque <fleep513 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Regarding legitimate use cases:
>>
>> It would be a perfectly legitimate use for someone to download any and
>> all content they have received on FleepGrid and then import that content
>> into any other grid.  Every item available to another user via $0 sale or
>> "take a copy" on my grid is CC licensed for such use (to the best of my
>> knowledge) and there would be nothing illegal, immoral, or unethical about
>> it.  In fact, I encourage it!
>>
>> Likewise, it would be a perfectly legitimate use for someone to download
>> all 500+ items I have created and listed on the FleepGrid webshop, which
>> are primarily in IAR format, and then upload those items to any other grid.
>>  Right now, as far as I know, the only way to do that is through console
>> access, which means only grid owners can really use the items I put on the
>> web, not end users.  That's due to a technical limitation of existing
>> tools, not my intent.  My intent is for anyone to be able to use them.  If
>> I understand Snowcrash's description correctly, his tool would make that
>> possible for any end user of a grid, which in fact would not only be a
>> legitimate use of the tool, but a wonderful and extremely helpful addition
>> for those of us who opensource our content and make it available in IAR
>> format for transport.
>>
>> I really don't mean to beat a dead horse, but those are legitimate uses.
>>  To say there is NO legitimate use of such a tool is simply not true.  What
>> is true is that there could be both legitimate and illegitimate uses.  And
>> I agree Snowcrash and any other developers should do their very best to
>> safeguard against that where possible.  But you can't argue that no
>> legitimate use case exists because I've just given several.  My desire to
>> create content and share it freely with whoever wants to use it is as
>> legitimate as any other content creator's desires, and ditto for any
>> law-abiding end user who wishes to use that content in an easy, convenient,
>> legal way.
>>
>>
>> Regarding the concept of "my inventory" (lowercase):
>>
>> I agree with Snowcrash that the concept of "my inventory" is the mental
>> construct that the vast majority of virtual world users have. Once I have
>> personally verified the license of an opensource item and have gained
>> access to it (currently by downloading the IAR or XML file to my local
>> computer), then I consider that file to be "mine" (or my licensed copy if
>> you prefer) to use as I wish, on any grid I wish.  The creator said I
>> could.  Great!  Except the ability to actually use that item on any grid I
>> wish requires me to upload it over and over each time I go to a new grid.
>>  And for IAR items, the only portable format that fully preserves an item,
>> I can only upload it if I have console access to the simulator - which of
>> course I do not have access to on any grids but my own.  That is not an
>> ideal situation at all.  I have an inventory of stuff that is mine to use,
>> my inventory, but using it on every grid I visit is at the moment an
>> exceedingly cumbersome process at best, and maybe not even possible at all
>> unless I have console access.
>>
>> A tool that would allow me to upload all the legally licensed XML and IAR
>> files I am currently storing on my local computer to a third party service,
>> that would hold those files for me, and then magically import them into any
>> grid I visit without me having to manually do it item by item myself would
>> be a godsend - and perfectly legal, legitimate, ethical, and proper.  I
>> know every XML and IAR file on my local computer is licensed for such use
>> and I would use such a tool with no hesitation at all, and would probably
>> want to kiss the developer who made it because it would save me an enormous
>> amount of time and effort.
>>
>>
>> Regarding third party inventory services:
>>
>> So let's say 20 reputable opensource content creators got together and
>> decided to pool our resources to make a repository of content available,
>> and we each had 500 items to contribute. Think Linda Kellie, who has the
>> most open permissions of any Opensim creator I know, or Vanish Seriath of
>> Opensim Creations, etc. So now we have a repository of 10,000 items that
>> are legally licensed from trusted sources that can be used on any grid.
>>  Would you really argue the ideal situation is that each user should
>> manually download each item from that repository and then each user should
>> manually upload each item to each and every grid every time they want to
>> use something from it?  Surely not, that's crazy.  But that's pretty much
>> the current situation.
>>
>> The ideal situation would be to have my inventory of legally licensed
>> freebie and purchased content (if it was licensed for such use) hosted not
>> on each grid, but somewhere else, and accessible to me no matter what grid
>> I travel to without me having to do any uploading at all. When I log on to
>> a grid, some established protocol talks to my inventory (or inventories, I
>> can imagine multiple services/sources), displays it as a folder when I open
>> my inventory in the GUI, and makes a local copy of an item only when I rez
>> it out into the world, or wear it, or whatever.  Or something like that.
>>  For freebie licensed content, perhaps grids subscribe to the third party
>> inventory repository and provide it as a folder in the library for every
>> user of their grid, or.. I dunno!  I can imagine many permutations.
>>
>> I am not a developer, so I don't fully understand all the mechanisms and
>> protocols that exist or could exist to make that kind of  functionality
>> possible.  But in general, it seems like Snowcrash's tool is trying to
>> implement some version of that concept, and I for one am very interested in
>> seeing how it might be implemented in a legal and ethical way. It would
>> solve what I view as one of the biggest obstacles to Opensim adoption -
>> lack of easy availability and portability of known, legally licensed,
>> trusted content.
>>
>>
>> Regarding opensource content creators and the need for better mechanisms
>> to share opensource content:
>>
>> I think Linda, Vanish, and I might be three largest web-based opensource
>> content providers at the moment, but there may be more that I don't know
>> about.  I obviously can't speak for them, but for myself, I spend an
>> _enormous_ amount of time, energy, and what amateur skill I possess not
>> just making items for the community, but countless additional hours
>> packaging them up, indexing them, loading them onto a website, and doing my
>> best to make it easy for people to actually port them wherever they want
>> and _use_ them.
>>
>> Since I am not a coder or a programmer, I unfortunately can't contribute
>> to the development of the Opensim code itself.  Creating openly licensed
>> content represents my attempt to contribute to the Opensim community in
>> another way.  Which is why it is quite sad to me that for all the countless
>> hours of effort I've dedicated to making these resources available to
>> people, in the hopes of making a significant positive contribution to the
>> Opensim community, the current technical limitations prevents the vast
>> majority of end users from being able to use my content at all!
>>
>> If Snowcrash is trying to resolve that problem, I am behind that effort
>> 100%, even if I share everyone's concerns about illegitimate uses and the
>> need to protect others rights, and sincerely hope that those issues and
>> concerns can be addressed, too.  But I can't agree there's no legitimate
>> need or use for a tool such as this - from my perspective, there is in fact
>> a great need for it.
>>
>> . . .
>>
>> I do apologize, both for the tl;dr length of this post and because I've
>> posted an awful lot in this thread, far more than I usually do. Clearly I
>> feel passionately about the topic.  Maybe I'll try to take a backseat for a
>> bit to make sure I'm not drowning out other voices and to think more about
>> all of the possible implications of a tool with this functionality.  And
>> while, for the purposes of this discussion, I am taking a strong position
>> on the potential benefits for opensource creators and law-abiding end
>> users, I hope it's clear that I genuinely understand, respect, and agree
>> with many of the concerns that have been raised as well.  I want all
>> content creators' and grid owners' rights to be respected, not just my own.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>>
>> - Chris/Fleep
>>
>>
>>
>>
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