[Opensim-users] Announcement of inventory tool (MyInventory), mostly of interest to grid operators/grid nauts

Sun Nov 18 18:44:43 UTC 2012

Just one thing to add, since you have yet to respond to my requests.

" so now releasing a legitimate tool is the same as performing wholesale
theft"

No, but developing and releasing a tool that has no legitimate uses IS
Illegal.   Again, I say, Legitimate as in, a use that doesn't breach a
contract or violate someone else's rights.   Don't stand on your high horse
Snowcrash, you're very wrong if you think that what you're doing is legal.

Comparing your tool to bittorrent is like comparing apples to oranges.
Bittorrent is for distributing content that you have copyright of.    Your
tool is for distributing content that you /don't/ have copyright on.   So,
lets say, 'backing up' is fair use.   Ok...     but when you go to upload
it somewhere..  you're violating the terms of service for that new place
because you do not have the copyright to upload it...   and tosses DO say
that you must have the copyright or have permission to upload copyrighted
content from the copyright holder.      So, again..     It HAS NO
LEGITIMATE USES..   it is illegal.

Teravus

On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 12:26 PM, Snowcrash Short <snowcrash.short at gmail.com
> wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Nov 18, 2012 at 6:19 PM, Melanie <melanie at t-data.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On 18/11/2012 17:14, Snowcrash Short wrote:
>> > I fail completely to see how this tool can be a threat, let alone to a
>> > hobbyist running a small grid. If content creators labor under the wrong
>> > impression that this tool is like copy-bot, then I could see why some
>> > content creators might see this as a problem.
>> >
>>
>> This tool is PRECISELY like Copybot. It allows by default to export
>> items that the creator has not permitted export for and has not
>> expected that export would be easily possible.
>>
>> Actually it isn't, copybot - as you can see from the links I have
> provided - is designed to copy any view-able content, i.e. if it is present
> in the region, copybot enables you to copy that item. Oddly enough, that is
> far simpler to do than backing up contents in a users inventory. The
> complete functionality for copying contents in a region - alá copybot - is
> actually already implemented in libomv, so will you ban every use of libomv
> as well?.
>
> This tool does indeed permit users to commit illegal acts by
>> default. Depending on the jurisdiction, download and/or upload are
>> limited by law unless explicitly permitted. Where limited by a TOS,
>> it is illegal practically everywhere.
>>
> Nope, as a licensee I am per default allowed to use the licensed material
> in any way I see fit, as long as I do not violate the copyright of the
> copyright holder. This includes backing up, migrating to other media, and
> modifying for personal use. Said rights are available to me, unless I have
> entered into an agreement with the copyright holder not to do so.
>
>>
>> I do see the fundamental disagreement between the community and
>> yourself - the community stands firmly behind the concept of
>> intellectual property and itemwise sale while you appear to believe
>> that digital items are mostly unowned and available to everyone to
>> be used as they see fit.
>>
> Where have I at any point rejected the concept of intellectual property?
> or claimed that the licensees are unrestricted in their uses? never!, you
> are claims are even beyond misrepresenting what I have said.
>
>>
>> Please take a moment to consider - digital items _are_ property.
>> They belong to someone and that someone is not the owner of the
>> inventory. It's the creator.
>
> And the license grant purchased from the copyright holder is property
> too!
>
>> A tool like this has the potential to
>> cause commercial creators to shun OpenSim completely and withdraw
>> into SL, leaving the OpenSim based worlds at the quality level of
>> freebies. For many of us, that quality level is not sufficient. This
>> is why closed grids and content protection exist.
>>
> And which is why I have offered to enable protection to those grids by
> implementing either the same policy as governs LL's grids or any other
> policy which can feasibly be implemented.
>
>>
>> Bringing inventory only while logged in doesn't work on a technical
>> basis either. Assets must be present on the grid for viewing even
>> after the user leaves.
>
> Only assets rez'ed and left by the user needs to remain, they do not need
> to be stored in any inventory, since they are visible in the region, as
> such there is no real technical need for a huge asset server held by the
> grid
>
>> The only thing that would be feasible to
>> transport with the avatar is clothing items and that concept has
>> been discussed by Diva and myself years ago. The issue then was that
>> the viewer was still GPL and off limits, so the viewer changes for
>> that feature were considered out of reach. However, that would still
>> not allow purchased items to travel with the user.
>>
> Are you too fine to touch GPL code? Admittedly the build process of the
> viewer is quite intricate, but the source is out there. Besides, who says
> that the URL returned in response for a CAPS request needs to reside on the
> server responding to the CAPS request?
>
>>
>> Creators have the expectation that the grid they upload their items
>> to protects their IP rights. They don't expect the user to be aware
>> of the law or follow it - they expect the grids to do that with
>> their TOS and their legal teams.
>>
> If that was the case, I pity the hobbiest grid operators, because putting
> the onus of protecting content creators assets on individual grid operators
> is leaving them wide open to litigation!
>
>>
>> SecondInventory has respected this by disallowing the download of
>> items the user has not created. They made that impossible to change
>> by keeping their tool closed source. Their tool has become the
>> accepted means of moving creations between worlds.
>>
>> As open source, your tool can be trivially modified by the less
>> morally inclined. I would expect the community to shun your too like
>> copybot is shunned. I would expect the reputation of copies of your
>> tool that have been illegally modified to reflect on the original,
>> unmodified tool and thereby cause grids, over time, to detect and
>> ban the use of any tool descended from it, ban the users using it
>> and confiscate inventories from these users. Is it really your
>> desire to become the author of super copybot?
>>
> You seem to have great respect for my coding skills "super copybot", the
> source code for everything is already out there, all I have done is combine
> what already exists and wrap it in a user interface.
>
>>
>> Your standard response of "closed source is security by obscurity"
>> doesn't wash either. If there were a tool out there that is easy to
>> use and allows trivially copying complete items on a large scale and
>> that tool were just hard to find, I'd have to agree. However, there
>> is no such tool.
>
> Yes there is, libomv, backup command line tool!
>
>> All existing tools are complex or broken, often
>> both. Releasing your tool as open source can be extremely harmful to
>> the continuum of grids commonly known as the "metaverse".
>>
>> A significant portion of the metaverse relies on commerce and
>> commerce cannot be sustained in the presence of wholesale theft.
>>
> great piece of demagoguery, are you by any chance rhetorically trained?
> so now releasing a legitimate tool is the same as performing wholesale
> theft?
>
> Since you are going beyond misrepresentation and resorting to demagoguery
> I can only surmise that you still oppose the tool but lack additional
> rational arguments against it.
>
> Best regards
> Snowcrash
>
>>
>> - Melanie
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>
>
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