[Opensim-users] re-why not a real OS?

Thu Oct 14 09:37:48 UTC 2010

Hi

Religion wars!!! :D

1.       Mono is backed by Microsoft:
http://techrights.org/2008/08/20/microsoft-suse-coupons/ (I won't bother
searching for more sources for this one)

2.       .Net is open source:
http://weblogs.asp.net/scottgu/archive/2008/01/16/net-framework-library-sour
ce-code-now-available.aspx

3.       C# and CLI are ECMA standards:
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/netframework/aa569283.aspx /
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-334.htm /
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-335.htm
<sarcasm>Oh my God, what is this? IT HAS TO BE FAKE!!!</sarcasm>
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/Ecma%20PATENT/E
CMA-334%20
<http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/files/ECMA-ST/Ecma%20PATENT/
ECMA-334%20&%20335/ECMA-335%204th%20Edition%20patent%20statements.pdf>
&%20335/ECMA-335%204th%20Edition%20patent%20statements.pdf

4.       Most/all improvements to .Net the last few years has been
additions. OpenSim has no problem waiting 6-12 months for Mono to catch up
before using the additions, because none of these new features are critical.
So yes, words can be used to argument on this point - but the reality is
that it doesn't matter if Mono is playing catch-up. If anything the
developers have time to learn the new technology before implementing them
resulting in increased code quality in OpenSim.

And then we come to #5:

Unless someone are willing to rewrite OpenSim in another language which
suits their taste better I think this conversation thread may have a
relatively high probability of being of that popular culture metaphorical
dead end that we sometimes hear about.

Now for OS: Now I won't detail the kernels of Win vs Lin, but I can point
out that anyone who says that either is better is basically an ignorant fool
/ troll / at the peak of Dunning-Kruger (pick one or more).

Br,

Tedd J

From: opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of lamont cranston
Sent: 14. oktober 2010 10:41
To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] re-why not a real OS?

I would point out that I did give a helpful link to the the original
question (Drupal does run on Windows, my link was to their page)

My use of the word "real" is because Free Software is Computer *Science* -
open experiments with all the evidence available to all researchers. 
The opposite is the guild system where knowledge is hoarded and no one
outside the guild is allowed to know how things are done. It is unnatural
and requires the use of force (legal penalties) to impose. It slows down the
advancement of knowledge.
You don't need source code to break an operating system - Microsoft has
demonstrated that beyond debate.
You do need source code to fix it. 

looking at James comment 

1. Pick your application

2. Pick the language that best implements it

3. Pick the best operating system that supports it (natively is to be
preferred)

4. pick the hardware that runs that operating system

OpenSim is being tied to Windows due to the use of .net (I agree with James
parenthetical statement)
Mono is open, but it is a potential landmine of patent liability, which is
why it has been dropped from Fedora/Red Hat.
That loss of userbase/mindshare impacts on the development of Mono. 

I'm pleased to hear that the garbage collection is being improved, but by
design, Mono is locked into playing catch up against .net

As a result, the roadmap of a critical component belongs to a company that
has their own agenda, and it may not support your project

Having an open project dependent on a closed OS introduces a point of
failure, outside of the developers control.

Suggesting nefarious scheming on the part of Microsoft is not unreasonable,
given the company's history -  from the days of the DR-DOS lawsuit to the
theft of code from Plurk and the whole fuss over stolen XML code in their
office suite back at the begining of this year. If Mono is an intentional
landmine this project would be among the casualties, not even noticed in the
larger scheme of things.

On Thu, Oct 14, 2010 at 3:21 AM, Ric Moore < <mailto:wayward4now at gmail.com>
wayward4now at gmail.com> wrote:

On Thu, 2010-10-14 at 08:31 +0200, jabbaah wrote:
> You've got it - the world is black-and-white:
>
> Linux is good,
> Windows is bad.

I certainly never stated that. I happen to not like Windows as MY OS and
I was very careful to state it was a personal preference. Anyone is free
to use whatever blows up their dress.

> That's all.
>
> Nope, back to reality: I am working as a freelance IT professional for
> years now.
> If you have to install a new system for a specific task you'll have to
> decide which
> operating system will be used. There are typical tasks which will lead
> you to a linux/unix/solaris
> installation and there are other jobs which will lead to a windows
> installation.
> Not to forget that there are typical os/x tasks which will lead to an
> xserve installation
> or something similar (sometimes hardware dependant).
>
> Back to OpenSim: You have the choice. I guess we don't have a 'typical'
> OpenSim
> installation. Linux or Windows. Your own decision. Both are as good as
> the other.
>
> Nothing bad about windows - but usually (if you rent a server) a few bucks
> more expensive than a linux box (due to license cost). That's all.
> But that's not a question of quality. If you'd use Red Hat Linux you had
to
> pay license fees, too.

In Red Hat's case, as I used to work there, you're paying for the
service per license but never for the software. Bob Young hired me back
when, mostly to be the Goat amongst his 20 somethings Thoroughbreds, not
because I was a coder whizbang propeller head. If you don't need the
service, then CentOS can be installed for free. Again, that's bare
knucks, but makes for one tough server.

> Far more important is bandwidth of internet connection, latency,
> size of ram, disk speed, number of cpu cores.

I most certainly concur with that. I'd give anything to tap the Sprint
fiber optic cable that runs through our front yard, it's a major route
on the net's backbone. When I asked how much to connect, I got an
offhand "several grand a month ...or so". It goes from DC to Blackstone
VA down to Duke and UNC in North Carolina. Sweet. Probably the same line
that MS and Apple are tied into. Ric

--
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256

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