[Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can this be done?

Tue Jan 12 05:24:30 UTC 2010

As I think of it the answer is the same.

The Linden Labs viewer does send an identification and version number, bat that really does very little. Almost every viewer out there is based on the current LL viewer and many people don't bother changing this code for their experimental versions.

For example I just checked and I have a customised LL viewer where the only change is that it will log on to my private sim by default. The ID codes are identical to the original since I never bothered to change them.

I use it to make sure that my private sim will run OK with the "official" viewer.

I am not really sure why you would want that restriction though. Should I be considering that for my sim? Have I missed something here?

Sorry.

Karen

--- On Mon, 1/11/10, Imago <imagorabbit at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Imago <imagorabbit at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can this be done?
> To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
> Date: Monday, January 11, 2010, 10:05 PM
> I don't think anyone is
> understanding. :D It's not just Cryo. I want only 
> Linden Lab viewers to be able to login. I've seen it done
> on other 
> opensim's. I know people can get around that. But the point
> is... Not 
> everyone is a coder. So, while they could compile and make
> it look like a 
> Linden Lab viewer then so be it. I just want to know if
> there's a mod or 
> string that I can put in to opensim to see what channel the
> viewer is 
> sending, and if it's not the right one than to display an
> error message that 
> would tell them to download an official release in order to
> login.
> 
> Maybe I should have chosen my words better. Mentioning Cryo
> is like 
> mentioning copybot, and responses only seem to be based on
> theft and copy 
> protection. I just want to know if there's a string to
> block a viewer. I 
> know people have done it I just can't remember what opensim
> I saw it done 
> on. I also know that if I had Cryo source code I could
> compile and make it 
> look like a Second Life release viewer. But not everyone is
> a hacker or a 
> coder or both. Most people don't know how or can't compile
> a viewer or are 
> too lazy to. So, they go look for one, and that's the basis
> for my thinking 
> most theives are too lazy to try to figure out a way and
> will move on to the 
> next target.
> 
> 
> So, the question I'm asking is:
> Is there a way for OpenSim to check a viewer string and
> allow or disallow 
> based on that, and if so please let me know where that code
> is, and if 
> not... Then I'll be burning the midnight oil again coding
> one up.
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Karen Palen" <karen_palen at yahoo.com>
> To: <opensim-users at lists.berlios.de>
> Sent: Monday, January 11, 2010 10:44 PM
> Subject: [Opensim-users] Banning "bad" viewers was Re: Can
> this be done?
> 
> 
> > The short answer is no.
> >
> > The more complete answer is that you while can easily
> detect some 
> > characteristic of a viewer (or other software) which
> identifies that 
> > viewer and use that to ban it, nothing can stop the
> authors of that viewer 
> > from changing whatever characteristic you use.
> >
> > Worse yet, whatever characteristic you select to
> identify the "bad" 
> > software will inevitably turn up in some other
> (innocent) viewer sooner or 
> > later and will cause them to be banned for no reason.
> >
> > The best you could hope to achieve is some sort of
> "arms race" between 
> > "bad" viewer creators and sim operators.
> >
> > In addition any viewer could be adapted for piracy.
> The original 
> > experiments that resulted in
> libsecondlife/openMetaverse were based on 
> > analysing the data stream between the Second Life
> Servers and the viewer 
> > software (at the time ONLY the Linden Labs viewer) and
> had access to all 
> > of that information. This was all done without
> modifying the viewer in any 
> > way - it was proprietary at the time.
> >
> > Sadly the lesson of the endless failures of DRM
> schemes elsewhere shows 
> > that the real losers are the honest/innocent users who
> are unable to do 
> > the things that they really should expect to do with
> the content that they 
> > have purchased.
> >
> > For example, I have completely stopped buying anything
> in Second Life 
> > since I want to use the inventory I buy in my private
> sims as well. Sure I 
> > can use pirate tools to do this, but if I have to do
> that to use my 
> > purchases where I want to use them then why not just
> steal the stuff in 
> > the first place?
> >
> > This is very similar to the situation with music CDs
> and DVDs, why build 
> > an expensive collection if you will just have to
> re-purchase it in a few 
> > years for the next technology and some DRM scheme
> tries to keep me from 
> > playing my collection on the new equipment?
> >
> > There are several efforts being directed at come sort
> of "portable" 
> > content. I hope that one or more actually proves to
> work, but I have no 
> > illusions about that actually happening any time
> soon.
> >
> > My opinion is that the best we can do at present is
> similar to the real 
> > life piracy situation: stop the commercial marketing
> of pirated 
> > merchandise as it is detected and reported. Ban anyone
> who engages in such 
> > activities and if they persist bring real world law
> enforcement to bear.
> >
> > For once Linden Labs seems to be using a reasonable
> version of this when 
> > they state that the viewer is not the problem, it is
> the use of the 
> > viewer. They have promised to act promptly to ban
> anyone using any viewer 
> > for piracy.
> >
> > Karen
> >
> > --- On Mon, 1/11/10, Imago <imagorabbit at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> Is it possible to stop
> >> certain viewers from logging
> >> in to your opensim? Like Cryo?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Opensim-users mailing list
> > Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
> 
> 
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