[Opensim-users] Problem with sculpties was Re: Speaking of Content Theft, How About Our Own Backyard?
Karen Palen
karen_palen at yahoo.com
Fri Feb 26 06:31:19 UTC 2010
You should be aware that most of this discussion has now moved to John's website:
http://johnmieske.org
I expect that we will post a report here once we have something of substance to report.
Meanwhile anyone interested should register there to join in!
Karen
--- On Thu, 2/25/10, Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com> wrote:
> From: Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Problem with sculpties was Re: Speaking of Content Theft, How About Our Own Backyard?
> To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
> Date: Thursday, February 25, 2010, 10:54 PM
> Agreed, and thank you John.
>
> James,
>
> If I am that annoying to those who do not wish to
> involve themselves in "open" OpenSim-related
> discussions then I highly advise you to set your preferences
> to ignore or block me. Problem solved, no?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:07 AM,
> John Mieske <johnmieske at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> Did I miss something here ? This group IS for this reason
> to work out problems with OpenSim in general. Sometimes
> thoughts and ideas are made from the back and forth
> conversations. And over time it helps those who had no clue
> to understand and learn more. So not sure what your speaking
> about ??
>
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 9:01 AM,
> James Stallings II <james.stallings at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> Here's a suggestion:
> How about taking these marathon email threads to
> a private CC list?
> Signed - tired of my alerts going off every ten
> minutes for the last 18 hours
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:00 AM,
> Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> I think I finally broke free of my SL addiction through
> OS. Then again, once I was finally able to migrate all my
> work into OS that helped immeasurably.
>
> When Zindra opened up I teamed up with one of the so-called
> land sharks to purchase a full region, then I took 16,384m2
> in the precise center of the region as my own and he sold
> off the rest in 12 4,096m2 parcels.
>
>
>
>
>
> I devoted myself to that land area for a long time, mainly
> because it was 1/4 sim so it cost "just" $75 a
> month in tier. But also because its precise center was
> 128,128 which aided me in many of my designs. As mentioned
> before, I'm fairly maths-dependent on much of my day to
> day reasoning and so using a starting point for everything I
> built at 128,128,128 XYZ coords made my virtual life easier
> to deal with.
>
>
>
>
>
> Now with OS I find it more and more difficult to justify
> paying $75 a month for 1/4 of a sim, especially since I can
> now create an unlimited number of sims for nothing.. I can
> only hope that eventually OS will have as slick and
> intuitive avatar control as Second Life now has. That is
> the one thing that still daws me to SL. Being able to walk
> about and move freely with so much control is a good feeling
> compared to my clumsy and "thrashing" control in
> OS. And walking up stairs will be a joyous occasion in
> OpenSim when I no longer have to use invisible ramps to
> avoid constant tripping and squatting when going up them.
> :)
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 6:54 AM,
> John Mieske <johnmieske at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> You know I would have to agree with you both. I don't
> care for sculpties except for a couple things. However the
> reason lately I have been forced to use sculpties for more
> and more items is because of the higher and higher land
> prices to lower and lower prims to that land ratios. So
> people in SL are being forced to find whatever they can to
> cut down costs and still get enough prims. SL is crazy
> expensive, which is one reason I hated SL lately..
>
>
>
>
>
> John
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 1:59 AM,
> Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> If you want a real gauge of my seriousness and devotion to
> Prim Evangelism, my avatar in Second Life and now in
> OpenSim'OSGrid is a single solitary floating prim - a
> little wooden box drifting about on the breeze or bouncing
> happily along the ground when not flying.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> My profile says it all, thusly "I refuse to think
> outside the box."
>
> My alt avie is Sculpt Nazi on OSGrid. My slogan -
> "No sculpt for you!" like the Soup Nazi on
> Seinfeld. :)
>
> :)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:14 PM,
> Karen Palen <karen_palen at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> > "I'm not God,
> but I play one in OpenSim."
>
>
>
> I love it - don't we all do that though? LOL
>
>
>
> To me, one of the problems with the Linden Labs
> architecture is that everything is so very much dependant on
> the viewer. It certainly makes sense from a server/client
> perspective, but from a simulation perspective it sucks! The
> rendering inconsistencies are only one of the problems.
> Sigh.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I first ran across "sculpties" as NURBS, either
> on Poser or 3DS Max. They make a lot more sense with that
> implementation! In essence they were intended to model
> organic type structures which are inherently
> "squishy" in nature. They do that job very well,
> and even the strange morphs due to viewer problems do not
> violate the believability in an "organic" type of
> object like a pillow.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I agree that the SL "sculpties" have been sadly
> mis-used as a short cut to produce complex shapes of all
> kinds.
>
>
>
> A window frame is just a mess as a sculptie! That kind of
> kludge will certainly run into some nasty problems later
> (far worse than we see now!) since they are now solidly
> built into the structure of the Sl environment for better or
> for worse!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Probably it would be much better to model that kind of
> object with a texture somehow - textures at least seem to
> work quite well.
>
>
>
> I am looking forward to the incorporation of the RealXtend
> handling of actual mesh objects into OpenSim though. A mesh
> really does model most real world objects quite closely.
>
>
>
> Obviously the more closely your model conforms to what you
> are depicting then the better your depiction - if only
> because the "kludges" necessary to make things
> work are minimised.
>
>
>
> Still we have what we have for all its shortcomings.
>
>
>
> Anyway thanks for enlightening me. I am not as passionate
> about it as you, but I certainly agree that
> "sculpties" are mis-used in SL and OpenSim!
>
>
>
> Karen
>
>
>
> --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> > From: Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
>
> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Problem with
> sculpties was Re: Speaking of Content Theft, How About Our
> Own Backyard?
>
> > To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>
> > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 8:26 PM
>
> > I'd also like to add that I
> know I can
>
> > make adjustments to my viewer so the sculpts render
> beter
>
> > and more cleanly, even at greater distances. But I
> feel
>
> > like "modifying the viewer" so that I can
> better
>
> > see the world is like wearing glasses when I have
> 20/20
>
> > vision. I already know what the world looks like and
> do
>
> > not need anything to assist me. If, in its natural
> state,
>
> > the world is a blur and sculpted mess, then there is
>
> > something, to me, inherently wrong with the world and
> it
>
> > must therefore be repaired.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > for me, proper reparation is removing the offending
> item -
>
> > sculpts.
>
> >
>
> > "I'm not God, but I play one in
> OpenSim."
>
> >
>
> > LOL
>
> >
>
> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:20 PM,
>
> > Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Karen,
>
> >
>
> > When I fist started seeing sculpties I was
> impressed. The
>
> > rounded edges on cushions, the ability to render
> fully
>
> > complex tlattices and window frames with only a single
> prim,
>
> > etc.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > But I felt a feeling I can only describe as
>
> > "nausea" the first few times I came upon
> something
>
> > and watched its twisted, contorted and violently
> mis-shapen
>
> > form gradually snap into shape as the sculptmaps
> rezzed and
>
> > the sculpties themselves take their final form.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > A similar feeling comes over me when I either
> approach
>
> > something comprised of sculpts, or back away from
> something
>
> > comprised of them. The way they kind of snap in and
> out of
>
> > shape, distorting and forming depending on my distance
> and
>
> > Internet connection just makes me feel ill.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On the other hand, when I walk into a shop that
> containes
>
> > objects of the same degree of complexity, but that
> render
>
> > instantaneously as a series of individual prims, I
> just get
>
> > this relaxing and calm feeling that "life has
> rendered
>
> > beautifully" once again.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Like I said, it's a personal thing and I
> don't
>
> > expect anyone to understand it fully. It just seems
> very
>
> > VERY unnatural for me in a virtual world to have
> sculpted
>
> > items when the core nature of the world is all a
> matter of
>
> > X-Y-Z coordinates and clean-cut numerical values to
>
> > everything.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > A prim-based flagpole and flag, for example, to me is
> a
>
> > mathematical thing of beauty, even as the flag sways
> in the
>
> > breeze, it's the result of pure numbers.
>
> >
>
> > But a sculpted flagpole and flag seems like a massive
> mess
>
> > of numbers all tangled together and disorganized,
> trying to
>
> > make sense but never being quite capable.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I hope that helps a little bit. :)
>
> >
>
> > - Len
>
> >
>
> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:06 PM,
>
> > Karen Palen <karen_palen at yahoo.com>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Your statement intrigues me - what
>
> > is your problem with sculpties?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > In my ignorance I see them as just one more way to
> achieve
>
> > a difficult goal. Actually somewhat more in step with
> the
>
> > greater 3d world than prims!
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > What am I missing here?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Karen
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
>
> > wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > From: Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
>
> >
>
> > > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Speaking of Content
>
> > Theft, How About Our Own Backyard?
>
> >
>
> > > To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>
> >
>
> > > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 7:47 PM
>
> >
>
> > > I've always had a strong fondness for
>
> >
>
> > > expressing my creativity in a 3D
> representation. I
>
> > was
>
> >
>
> > > lucky enough to find a platform with Second Life
> where
>
> > I
>
> >
>
> > > could also see a profit from my interest.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > But like with the recording industry, change is
>
> > inevitable
>
> >
>
> > > in the platform and as must likewise learn to
> adapt.
>
> > I
>
> >
>
> > > believe the most difficult thing to overcome is
> the
>
> > natural
>
> >
>
> > > tendency toward stagnation of reason. I want
> things
>
> > to
>
> >
>
> > > remain the same because that is what I'm
> most
>
> >
>
> > > comfortable with.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Second Life of yesteryear is not the Second Life
> of
>
> > today,
>
> >
>
> > > and the same is true of OpenSim. For example,
>
> > I'm so
>
> >
>
> > > opposed to the use of sculpties it's almost
>
> > evangelical
>
> >
>
> > > in nature. I absolutely detest them in any
>
> > "shape,
>
> >
>
> > > form or fashion." But that is because
> I'm
>
> > old
>
> >
>
> > > school. I 'cut my teeth' learning 3D
>
> >
>
> > > virtualization when the basic prim and its
> derivatives
>
> > were
>
> >
>
> > > all you had to work with, so creatively working
> with
>
> > that
>
> >
>
> > > medium was all I had. Now one can create a
>
> > limitless
>
> >
>
> > > assortment of items simply by the use of
> sculpties.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > But if I can learn to accommodate sculpt maps
> into my
>
> >
>
> > > virtual life, then surely I can accommodate
> other
>
> > changes,
>
> >
>
> > > including a new business model surrounding my
>
> > passion.
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > - Len
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > _______________________________________________
>
> >
>
> > > Opensim-users mailing list
>
> >
>
> > > Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>
> >
>
> > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> >
>
> > Opensim-users mailing list
>
> >
>
> > Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>
> >
>
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> >
>
> > _______________________________________________
>
> > Opensim-users mailing list
>
> > Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>
> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Opensim-users mailing list
>
> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
>
> --
> - Len W. Brown
> lenwbrown at gmail.com
>
> http://www.lenfocenter.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Opensim-users mailing list
>
> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> John Mieske / Winword Exonar
> http://johnmieske.org
> Space Grid Station
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Opensim-users mailing list
>
> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> - Len W. Brown
> lenwbrown at gmail.com
>
> http://www.lenfocenter.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Opensim-users mailing list
>
> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> ===================================
> http://osgrid.org
> http://twitter.com/jstallings2
>
>
>
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Opensim-users mailing list
>
> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> John Mieske / Winword Exonar
> http://johnmieske.org
> Space Grid Station
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Opensim-users mailing list
>
> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> - Len W. Brown
> lenwbrown at gmail.com
>
> http://www.lenfocenter.com
>
>
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
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