[Opensim-users] Problem with sculpties was Re: Speaking of Content Theft, How About Our Own Backyard?

Fri Feb 26 05:54:27 UTC 2010

Agreed, and thank you John.

James,

     If I am that annoying to those who do not wish to involve themselves in
"open" OpenSim-related discussions then I highly advise you to set your
preferences to ignore or block me.  Problem solved, no?

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 10:07 AM, John Mieske <johnmieske at gmail.com> wrote:

> Did I miss something here ?  This group IS for this reason to work out
> problems with OpenSim in general. Sometimes thoughts and ideas are made from
> the back and forth conversations. And over time it helps those who had no
> clue to understand and learn more. So not sure what your speaking about ??
>
> John
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 9:01 AM, James Stallings II <
> james.stallings at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Here's a suggestion:
>>
>> How about taking these marathon email threads to a private CC list?
>>
>> Signed - tired of my alerts going off every ten minutes for the last 18
>> hours
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:00 AM, Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I think I finally broke free of my SL addiction through OS.  Then again,
>>> once I was finally able to migrate all my work into OS that helped
>>> immeasurably.
>>>
>>> When Zindra opened up I teamed up with one of the so-called land sharks
>>> to purchase a full region, then I took 16,384m2 in the precise center of the
>>> region as my own and he sold off the rest in 12 4,096m2 parcels.
>>>
>>> I devoted myself to that land area for a long time, mainly because it was
>>> 1/4 sim so it cost "just" $75 a month in tier.  But also because its precise
>>> center was 128,128 which aided me in many of my designs.  As mentioned
>>> before, I'm fairly maths-dependent on much of my day to day reasoning and so
>>> using a starting point for everything I built at 128,128,128 XYZ coords made
>>> my virtual life easier to deal with.
>>>
>>> Now with OS I find it more and more difficult to justify paying $75 a
>>> month for 1/4 of a sim, especially since I can now create an unlimited
>>> number of sims for nothing..  I can only hope that eventually OS will have
>>> as slick and intuitive avatar control as Second Life now has.  That is the
>>> one thing that still daws me to SL.  Being able to walk about and move
>>> freely with so much control is a good feeling compared to my clumsy and
>>> "thrashing" control in OS.  And walking up stairs will be a joyous occasion
>>> in OpenSim when I no longer have to use invisible ramps to avoid constant
>>> tripping and squatting when going up them.  :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 6:54 AM, John Mieske <johnmieske at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> You know I would have to agree with you both. I don't care for sculpties
>>>> except for a couple things. However the reason lately I have been forced to
>>>> use sculpties for more and more items is because of the higher and higher
>>>> land prices to lower and lower prims to that land ratios. So people in SL
>>>> are being forced to find whatever they can to cut down costs and still get
>>>> enough prims. SL is crazy expensive, which is one reason I hated SL
>>>> lately..
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 1:59 AM, Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> If you want a real gauge of my seriousness and devotion to Prim
>>>>> Evangelism, my avatar in Second Life and now in OpenSim'OSGrid is a single
>>>>> solitary floating prim - a little wooden box drifting about on the breeze or
>>>>> bouncing happily along the ground when not flying.
>>>>>
>>>>> My profile says it all, thusly "I refuse to think outside the box."
>>>>>
>>>>> My alt avie is Sculpt Nazi on OSGrid.  My slogan - "No sculpt for you!"
>>>>> like the Soup Nazi on Seinfeld.  :)
>>>>>
>>>>> :)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Karen Palen <karen_palen at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> > "I'm not God, but I play one in OpenSim."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I love it - don't we all do that though? LOL
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To me, one of the problems with the Linden Labs architecture is that
>>>>>> everything is so very much dependant on the viewer. It certainly makes sense
>>>>>> from a server/client perspective, but from a simulation perspective it
>>>>>> sucks! The rendering inconsistencies are only one of the problems. Sigh.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I first ran across "sculpties" as NURBS, either on Poser or 3DS Max.
>>>>>> They make a lot more sense with that implementation! In essence they were
>>>>>> intended to model organic type structures which are inherently "squishy" in
>>>>>> nature. They do that job very well, and even the strange morphs due to
>>>>>> viewer problems do not violate the believability in an "organic" type of
>>>>>> object like a pillow.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I agree that the SL "sculpties" have been sadly mis-used as a short
>>>>>> cut to produce complex shapes of all kinds.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A window frame is just a mess as a sculptie! That kind of kludge will
>>>>>> certainly run into some nasty problems later (far worse than we see now!)
>>>>>> since they are now solidly built into the structure of the Sl environment
>>>>>> for better or for worse!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Probably it would be much better to model that kind of object with a
>>>>>> texture somehow - textures at least seem to work quite well.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am looking forward to the incorporation of the RealXtend handling of
>>>>>> actual mesh objects into OpenSim though. A mesh really does model most real
>>>>>> world objects quite closely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Obviously the more closely your model conforms to what you are
>>>>>> depicting then the better your depiction - if only because the "kludges"
>>>>>> necessary to make things work are minimised.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Still we have what we have for all its shortcomings.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway thanks for enlightening me. I am not as passionate about it as
>>>>>> you, but I certainly agree that "sculpties" are mis-used in SL and OpenSim!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Karen
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > From: Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
>>>>>> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Problem with sculpties was Re: Speaking
>>>>>> of Content Theft, How About Our Own Backyard?
>>>>>> > To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>>>> > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 8:26 PM
>>>>>> > I'd also like to add that I know I can
>>>>>> > make adjustments to my viewer so the sculpts render beter
>>>>>> > and more cleanly, even at greater distances.  But I feel
>>>>>> > like "modifying the viewer" so that I can better
>>>>>> > see the world is like wearing glasses when I have 20/20
>>>>>> > vision.  I already know what the world looks like and do
>>>>>> > not need anything to assist me.  If, in its natural state,
>>>>>> > the world is a blur and sculpted mess, then there is
>>>>>> > something, to me, inherently wrong with the world and it
>>>>>> > must therefore be repaired.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > for me, proper reparation is removing the offending item -
>>>>>> > sculpts.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > "I'm not God, but I play one in OpenSim."
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > LOL
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:20 PM,
>>>>>> > Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Karen,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > When I fist started seeing sculpties I was impressed.  The
>>>>>> > rounded edges on cushions, the ability to render fully
>>>>>> > complex tlattices and window frames with only a single prim,
>>>>>> > etc.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > But I felt a feeling I can only describe as
>>>>>> > "nausea" the first few times I came upon something
>>>>>> > and watched its twisted, contorted and violently mis-shapen
>>>>>> > form gradually snap into shape as the sculptmaps rezzed and
>>>>>> > the sculpties themselves take their final form.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > A similar feeling comes over me when I either approach
>>>>>> > something comprised of sculpts, or back away from something
>>>>>> > comprised of them.  The way they kind of snap in and out of
>>>>>> > shape, distorting and forming depending on my distance and
>>>>>> > Internet connection just makes me feel ill.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On the other hand, when I walk into a shop that containes
>>>>>> > objects of the same degree of complexity, but that render
>>>>>> > instantaneously as a series of individual prims, I just get
>>>>>> > this relaxing and calm feeling that "life has rendered
>>>>>> > beautifully" once again.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Like I said, it's a personal thing and I don't
>>>>>> > expect anyone to understand it fully.  It just seems very
>>>>>> > VERY unnatural for me in a virtual world to have sculpted
>>>>>> > items when the core nature of the world is all a matter of
>>>>>> > X-Y-Z coordinates and clean-cut numerical values to
>>>>>> > everything.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > A prim-based flagpole and flag, for example, to me is a
>>>>>> > mathematical thing of beauty, even as the flag sways in the
>>>>>> > breeze, it's the result of pure numbers.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > But a sculpted flagpole and flag seems like a massive mess
>>>>>> > of numbers all tangled together and disorganized, trying to
>>>>>> > make sense but never being quite capable.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I hope that helps a little bit.  :)
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > - Len
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:06 PM,
>>>>>> > Karen Palen <karen_palen at yahoo.com>
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Your statement intrigues me - what
>>>>>> > is your problem with sculpties?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > In my ignorance I see them as just one more way to achieve
>>>>>> > a difficult goal. Actually somewhat more in step with the
>>>>>> > greater 3d world than prims!
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > What am I missing here?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Karen
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > From: Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Speaking of Content
>>>>>> > Theft, How About Our Own  Backyard?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 7:47 PM
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > I've always had a strong fondness for
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > expressing my creativity in a 3D representation.  I
>>>>>> > was
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > lucky enough to find a platform with Second Life where
>>>>>> > I
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > could also see a profit from my interest.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > But like with the recording industry, change is
>>>>>> > inevitable
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > in the platform and as must likewise learn to adapt.
>>>>>> > I
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > believe the most difficult thing to overcome is the
>>>>>> > natural
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > tendency toward stagnation of reason.  I want things
>>>>>> > to
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > remain the same because that is what I'm most
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > comfortable with.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > Second Life of yesteryear is not the Second Life of
>>>>>> > today,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > and the same is true of OpenSim.  For example,
>>>>>> > I'm so
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > opposed to the use of sculpties it's almost
>>>>>> > evangelical
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > in nature.  I absolutely detest them in any
>>>>>> > "shape,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > form or fashion."  But that is because I'm
>>>>>> > old
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > school.  I 'cut my teeth' learning 3D
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > virtualization when the basic prim and its derivatives
>>>>>> > were
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > all you had to work with, so creatively working with
>>>>>> > that
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > medium was all I had.  Now one can create a
>>>>>> > limitless
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > assortment of items simply by the use of sculpties.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > But if I can learn to accommodate sculpt maps into my
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > virtual life, then surely I can accommodate other
>>>>>> > changes,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > including a new business model surrounding my
>>>>>> > passion.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > - Len
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>> > Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>>> > Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>>>> > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> - Len W. Brown
>>>>>   lenwbrown at gmail.com
>>>>>      http://www.lenfocenter.com
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>>> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> John Mieske / Winword Exonar
>>>> http://johnmieske.org
>>>> Space Grid Station
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>>> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Len W. Brown
>>>   lenwbrown at gmail.com
>>>      http://www.lenfocenter.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Opensim-users mailing list
>>> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ===================================
>> http://osgrid.org
>> http://twitter.com/jstallings2
>> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> John Mieske / Winword Exonar
> http://johnmieske.org
> Space Grid Station
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
> Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>
>

-- 
- Len W. Brown
  lenwbrown at gmail.com
     http://www.lenfocenter.com
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