[Opensim-users] Problem with sculpties was Re: Speaking of Content Theft, How About Our Own Backyard?

Thu Feb 25 14:01:55 UTC 2010

Here's a suggestion:

How about taking these marathon email threads to a private CC list?

Signed - tired of my alerts going off every ten minutes for the last 18
hours

On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 8:00 AM, Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com> wrote:

> I think I finally broke free of my SL addiction through OS.  Then again,
> once I was finally able to migrate all my work into OS that helped
> immeasurably.
>
> When Zindra opened up I teamed up with one of the so-called land sharks to
> purchase a full region, then I took 16,384m2 in the precise center of the
> region as my own and he sold off the rest in 12 4,096m2 parcels.
>
> I devoted myself to that land area for a long time, mainly because it was
> 1/4 sim so it cost "just" $75 a month in tier.  But also because its precise
> center was 128,128 which aided me in many of my designs.  As mentioned
> before, I'm fairly maths-dependent on much of my day to day reasoning and so
> using a starting point for everything I built at 128,128,128 XYZ coords made
> my virtual life easier to deal with.
>
> Now with OS I find it more and more difficult to justify paying $75 a month
> for 1/4 of a sim, especially since I can now create an unlimited number of
> sims for nothing..  I can only hope that eventually OS will have as slick
> and intuitive avatar control as Second Life now has.  That is the one thing
> that still daws me to SL.  Being able to walk about and move freely with so
> much control is a good feeling compared to my clumsy and "thrashing" control
> in OS.  And walking up stairs will be a joyous occasion in OpenSim when I no
> longer have to use invisible ramps to avoid constant tripping and squatting
> when going up them.  :)
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 6:54 AM, John Mieske <johnmieske at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> You know I would have to agree with you both. I don't care for sculpties
>> except for a couple things. However the reason lately I have been forced to
>> use sculpties for more and more items is because of the higher and higher
>> land prices to lower and lower prims to that land ratios. So people in SL
>> are being forced to find whatever they can to cut down costs and still get
>> enough prims. SL is crazy expensive, which is one reason I hated SL
>> lately..
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 25, 2010 at 1:59 AM, Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> If you want a real gauge of my seriousness and devotion to Prim
>>> Evangelism, my avatar in Second Life and now in OpenSim'OSGrid is a single
>>> solitary floating prim - a little wooden box drifting about on the breeze or
>>> bouncing happily along the ground when not flying.
>>>
>>> My profile says it all, thusly "I refuse to think outside the box."
>>>
>>> My alt avie is Sculpt Nazi on OSGrid.  My slogan - "No sculpt for you!"
>>> like the Soup Nazi on Seinfeld.  :)
>>>
>>> :)
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 11:14 PM, Karen Palen <karen_palen at yahoo.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> > "I'm not God, but I play one in OpenSim."
>>>>
>>>> I love it - don't we all do that though? LOL
>>>>
>>>> To me, one of the problems with the Linden Labs architecture is that
>>>> everything is so very much dependant on the viewer. It certainly makes sense
>>>> from a server/client perspective, but from a simulation perspective it
>>>> sucks! The rendering inconsistencies are only one of the problems. Sigh.
>>>>
>>>> I first ran across "sculpties" as NURBS, either on Poser or 3DS Max.
>>>> They make a lot more sense with that implementation! In essence they were
>>>> intended to model organic type structures which are inherently "squishy" in
>>>> nature. They do that job very well, and even the strange morphs due to
>>>> viewer problems do not violate the believability in an "organic" type of
>>>> object like a pillow.
>>>>
>>>> I agree that the SL "sculpties" have been sadly mis-used as a short cut
>>>> to produce complex shapes of all kinds.
>>>>
>>>> A window frame is just a mess as a sculptie! That kind of kludge will
>>>> certainly run into some nasty problems later (far worse than we see now!)
>>>> since they are now solidly built into the structure of the Sl environment
>>>> for better or for worse!
>>>>
>>>> Probably it would be much better to model that kind of object with a
>>>> texture somehow - textures at least seem to work quite well.
>>>>
>>>> I am looking forward to the incorporation of the RealXtend handling of
>>>> actual mesh objects into OpenSim though. A mesh really does model most real
>>>> world objects quite closely.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously the more closely your model conforms to what you are depicting
>>>> then the better your depiction - if only because the "kludges" necessary to
>>>> make things work are minimised.
>>>>
>>>> Still we have what we have for all its shortcomings.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway thanks for enlightening me. I am not as passionate about it as
>>>> you, but I certainly agree that "sculpties" are mis-used in SL and OpenSim!
>>>>
>>>> Karen
>>>>
>>>> --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> > From: Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
>>>> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Problem with sculpties was Re: Speaking
>>>> of Content Theft, How About Our Own Backyard?
>>>> > To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>> > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 8:26 PM
>>>> > I'd also like to add that I know I can
>>>> > make adjustments to my viewer so the sculpts render beter
>>>> > and more cleanly, even at greater distances.  But I feel
>>>> > like "modifying the viewer" so that I can better
>>>> > see the world is like wearing glasses when I have 20/20
>>>> > vision.  I already know what the world looks like and do
>>>> > not need anything to assist me.  If, in its natural state,
>>>> > the world is a blur and sculpted mess, then there is
>>>> > something, to me, inherently wrong with the world and it
>>>> > must therefore be repaired.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > for me, proper reparation is removing the offending item -
>>>> > sculpts.
>>>> >
>>>> > "I'm not God, but I play one in OpenSim."
>>>> >
>>>> > LOL
>>>> >
>>>> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:20 PM,
>>>> > Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > Karen,
>>>> >
>>>> > When I fist started seeing sculpties I was impressed.  The
>>>> > rounded edges on cushions, the ability to render fully
>>>> > complex tlattices and window frames with only a single prim,
>>>> > etc.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > But I felt a feeling I can only describe as
>>>> > "nausea" the first few times I came upon something
>>>> > and watched its twisted, contorted and violently mis-shapen
>>>> > form gradually snap into shape as the sculptmaps rezzed and
>>>> > the sculpties themselves take their final form.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > A similar feeling comes over me when I either approach
>>>> > something comprised of sculpts, or back away from something
>>>> > comprised of them.  The way they kind of snap in and out of
>>>> > shape, distorting and forming depending on my distance and
>>>> > Internet connection just makes me feel ill.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On the other hand, when I walk into a shop that containes
>>>> > objects of the same degree of complexity, but that render
>>>> > instantaneously as a series of individual prims, I just get
>>>> > this relaxing and calm feeling that "life has rendered
>>>> > beautifully" once again.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Like I said, it's a personal thing and I don't
>>>> > expect anyone to understand it fully.  It just seems very
>>>> > VERY unnatural for me in a virtual world to have sculpted
>>>> > items when the core nature of the world is all a matter of
>>>> > X-Y-Z coordinates and clean-cut numerical values to
>>>> > everything.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > A prim-based flagpole and flag, for example, to me is a
>>>> > mathematical thing of beauty, even as the flag sways in the
>>>> > breeze, it's the result of pure numbers.
>>>> >
>>>> > But a sculpted flagpole and flag seems like a massive mess
>>>> > of numbers all tangled together and disorganized, trying to
>>>> > make sense but never being quite capable.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > I hope that helps a little bit.  :)
>>>> >
>>>> > - Len
>>>> >
>>>> > On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:06 PM,
>>>> > Karen Palen <karen_palen at yahoo.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Your statement intrigues me - what
>>>> > is your problem with sculpties?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > In my ignorance I see them as just one more way to achieve
>>>> > a difficult goal. Actually somewhat more in step with the
>>>> > greater 3d world than prims!
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > What am I missing here?
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Karen
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > --- On Wed, 2/24/10, Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
>>>> > wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > > From: Len Brown <lenwbrown at gmail.com>
>>>> >
>>>> > > Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] Speaking of Content
>>>> > Theft, How About Our Own  Backyard?
>>>> >
>>>> > > To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>> >
>>>> > > Date: Wednesday, February 24, 2010, 7:47 PM
>>>> >
>>>> > > I've always had a strong fondness for
>>>> >
>>>> > > expressing my creativity in a 3D representation.  I
>>>> > was
>>>> >
>>>> > > lucky enough to find a platform with Second Life where
>>>> > I
>>>> >
>>>> > > could also see a profit from my interest.
>>>> >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > > But like with the recording industry, change is
>>>> > inevitable
>>>> >
>>>> > > in the platform and as must likewise learn to adapt.
>>>> > I
>>>> >
>>>> > > believe the most difficult thing to overcome is the
>>>> > natural
>>>> >
>>>> > > tendency toward stagnation of reason.  I want things
>>>> > to
>>>> >
>>>> > > remain the same because that is what I'm most
>>>> >
>>>> > > comfortable with.
>>>> >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > > Second Life of yesteryear is not the Second Life of
>>>> > today,
>>>> >
>>>> > > and the same is true of OpenSim.  For example,
>>>> > I'm so
>>>> >
>>>> > > opposed to the use of sculpties it's almost
>>>> > evangelical
>>>> >
>>>> > > in nature.  I absolutely detest them in any
>>>> > "shape,
>>>> >
>>>> > > form or fashion."  But that is because I'm
>>>> > old
>>>> >
>>>> > > school.  I 'cut my teeth' learning 3D
>>>> >
>>>> > > virtualization when the basic prim and its derivatives
>>>> > were
>>>> >
>>>> > > all you had to work with, so creatively working with
>>>> > that
>>>> >
>>>> > > medium was all I had.  Now one can create a
>>>> > limitless
>>>> >
>>>> > > assortment of items simply by the use of sculpties.
>>>> >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > > But if I can learn to accommodate sculpt maps into my
>>>> >
>>>> > > virtual life, then surely I can accommodate other
>>>> > changes,
>>>> >
>>>> > > including a new business model surrounding my
>>>> > passion.
>>>> >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > > - Len
>>>> >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>> >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> > > _______________________________________________
>>>> >
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>>>> >
>>>> > > Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
>>>> >
>>>> > > https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users
>>>> >
>>>> > >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >
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>>>> >
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>>>> >
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>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
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>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> - Len W. Brown
>>>   lenwbrown at gmail.com
>>>      http://www.lenfocenter.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> John Mieske / Winword Exonar
>> http://johnmieske.org
>> Space Grid Station
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> - Len W. Brown
>   lenwbrown at gmail.com
>      http://www.lenfocenter.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-users mailing list
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>

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