[Opensim-users] toward a new client

Thu Dec 4 10:06:17 UTC 2008

If it is to any comfort OpenSim doesn't run in 64-bit mode under Windows
either.

.Net runs fine on both 32 and 64-bit, but we have some binary
dependencies such as SQLite which prevents us from running it on 64-bit.

Luckily 32-bit OpenSim runs fine on any 64-bit operating system. :)

I was a LINUX MAN (in capital letters) once in a previous lifetime. I
moved to Windows for one single reason, installations. I found Linux to
be a platform for those who liked to do stuff, and Windows a platform
for those who liked to get it done.

It was not unusual with 6-8 hours installations following 6-8 levels of
dependency chains requiring manual compilation. And almost every single
compilation had its set of switches, problems and INSTALL documents you
had to read. Tools like rpfind.ned and rpm -qa | grep were my friends.
Eventually I fell for the Next, Next, Done approach Windows
installations had. (though I still keep a SSH window open for text file
processing and network tools)

But the problems in themselves were also the strength - if something ran
on one distro/os it would most likely run all distros/os. That was what
all the flags and "(./configure --binary-goes-here=/bin
--lib-is-here=/lib; make clean; make; make install) > coffebreak 2>
readme.later&" were for.

By no support you mean no precompiled installation packages?

Then someone should write a blog entry on how to compile Mono for RedHat
and CentOS. I think the magic is still there, even though it can take a
bit longer to perform.

BR,

 Tedd

From: opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Sered
Woollahra
Sent: 4. desember 2008 08:29
To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] toward a new client

Hi Tedd,

Yes, OpenSim runs on Mono. But recently I found out that Mono is heavily
sponsored by Novell these days, and, for mysterious reasons ;-) there's
no support for RedHat 5 or CentOS 5, i.e. the newer enterprise RedHat
flavors. There is something you can download from opensuse, but it's not
really supported. I can't get it to run, the mono part seems to work but
NAnt doesn't so there's no point really.

Furthermore, I have a 64 bits CentOS 5 server, which means I am more or
less stuck on two fronts: no robust mono support as mentioned above and
no OpenSim 64 bits support that I'm aware of. 

Mono for 64 bits RedHat flavors will eventually happen I guess..someone
will get it done. Perhaps OpenSim developers could contemplate whether
it's necessary to do a 64 bits version too - even if it's only once a
month or milestone releases.

Thanks and cheers,

Gerco

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 11:45 PM, Tedd Hansen <tedd at nimbustech.no> wrote:

Hi

Just a short/long correction. :)

OpenSim runs on .Net platform.

Microsoft has very clearly and widely defined CLS (Common Language
Specification). CLS set in stone and not a moving target at all (ISO or
something, don't remember).

CLS is what you will find in .Net Framework, mobile phones, Xbox 360,
Zune, inside small hardware chips, Silverlight, Moonlight and Mono.
There are also many compilers capable of transforming CLS compatible IL
into stand alone .exe or even stand alone operating systems.

Around CLS you have CLR (Common Language Runtime). This is Microsoft
extensions which puts more meat on the bone. From Version 1.0 to 3.5 I
have found one change. The String.Split() function takes one more
mandatory argument from 1.1 to 2.0. So also not a moving target. We are
using CLR to some degree, but well within what Mono can handle.

C# is the language used for OpenSim. C# is compiled by any capable
compiler down to CLS IL. Which in turn when executed is Just-In-Time
compiled into whatever CPU/platform specific code is required.

Mono does an excellent job here. There is a memory leak here and a crash
there, but you can hardly deny a piece of software like Mono right of
life because it is under development.

So that said, OpenSim should run on Windows, Linux, BSD, MacOSX and
SunOS. Without having tested it I don't see why it won't run on Xbox
360, Zune and mobile phones too. If it doesn't then it's just a matter
of time before it does.

OpenSim has always been, is, and will be compatible with "both worlds".

When it comes to viewers then it's up to the community to do something
about it. I don't see why we should not use a viewer only because it is
Windows. Especially not one which without too much effort can be
compiled to Linux. 

A part of the world (90%) is using Windows - so independent development
companies WILL target the masses first.

You are still free to use the standard viewer.

BR,

 Tedd

From: opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of James
Stallings II
Sent: 3. desember 2008 21:57 

To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de

Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] toward a new client

I too am a linux user. I'm also something of a linux dev. That
necesarily means I'm probably not a c# dev, as I have made concious
decisions to part company with windows many years ago. Additionally, as
a result of that decision, my focus has been in any place but windows
developement environments and programming languages.

True, I -have- become more familiar with c# since I began an association
with this project - but what that association has taught me is that it
isnt worth the trouble for me to develop for this project. Why? Because
my only options are to switch platforms, or dev with mono. And mono,
fwiw is not a truly compatible solution - issues with stability, memory,
and an inability to closely track the moving target that is the
microsoft .net runtime pretty well insure it will continue to be
ineffective, at best, as a solution to the problem of addressing
multiple platforms.

I absolutely beg the opensim core - stop drifting towards windows
centricity. You made a commitment some time ago to be cross platform -
follow through on the promise.

Everytime someone justifies a windows only application or framework in
this project, it justifies the next such move. Eventually it will become
very easy to justify opensim as a windows-only application. IMHO, that
would be both travesty and tragedy.

Cheers
James

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Charles Krinke <cfk at pacbell.net> wrote:

I would like to suggest that a "zealot" on IRC take this one and start a
group testing and reporting on #opensim.

The Rex client should connect to an OpenSim region or a grid like
OSGrid. It may have some problems, but this is the time to start getting
configurations worked out and getting this client working on OpenSim
more formally.

The Windows client is fine for now. Lets get it up and running and talk
about it. The Rex folks have put a lot of effort in getting to this
stage and we can help all of us by using and testing the Rex client and
discussing it on our #opensim IRC channel on FreeNode.

"Zealot" needed now! Pay is non-existent, hours are long, glory is
significant.

Charles

________________________________

From: Tedd Hansen <tedd at nimbustech.no>

To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de

Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 2:05:48 AM

Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] toward a new client

Hi

I must say I'm impressed. The graphics looks really nice, far far beyond
anything SL can offer both in looks and animation.
And the little game play demo must be among the best/most useful thing
I've ever seen in the Second Life universe.

For those here who haven't done it - I highly recommend you download
viewer and local server, unzip it and have a quick go at the game (click
statued fish to teleport outside).
I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised when you run it.

Looking forward to having the REX viewer/features work with vanilla
OpenSim+REX modules. :)
Great work!

BR,
Tedd

-----Original Message-----

From: opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de

[mailto:opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Paul
Fishwick
Sent: 1. desember 2008 20:55

To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de

Subject: [Opensim-users] toward a new client

If you haven't tried it yet, go to:

http://www.realxtend.org/page.php?pg=downloads

and try out the new client and server. Apparently, later on this month
or
next, this viewer will connect to the opensim trunk (rather than the
forked
project that it is now).

The sea world is great! Lots of new features.

-p

-- 
Dr. Paul A. Fishwick          E-Mail: fishwick at cise.ufl.edu
Dept. of Computer & Info      Phone & FAX: (352) 392-1414
Science and Engineering      WWW: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick
University of Florida          (PGP Key available at above WWW address)
P. O. Box 116120
332 Bldg. CSE, Gainesville, FL 32611-6120

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