[Opensim-users] toward a new client

Thu Dec 4 01:04:39 UTC 2008

Well, since we can't touch the viewer code yet,

Perhaps we could ask someone who can (maybe one of the OpenSL folks) to see if they can take a good stab at compiling Rex for Linux. It's not like the Rex guys don't want to see it happen, it's just they don't know how.

Adam

From: opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of James Stallings II
Sent: Wednesday, 3 December 2008 3:01 PM
To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] toward a new client

Simple compatibility is not in question - I'm well aware that opensim runs on both windows and linux.

That being said, having a language specification, however clear it may be, is not exactly the same thing as having a working language.

THAT being said, the 'crash here' and the 'memory leak there' are sufficient to keep Nebadon busy restarting the OSGrid linux plazas, and the memory leaks are sufficient to prevent us running more than a single region effectively on a linux box with 1GB (typically, we can conservatively get about twice the bang for the buck running the server on a windows platform).

My concern is that as the "independent developement companies'' produce progressively more code that runs only on windows (I'm mainly focussing on the viewer here, as that is what we were actively discussing, at least initially), we will get into a situation not unlike the one linux is in: it is percieved as being a great server platform and a sorry desktop environment.

I am TRULY desirous of using the rex code - I'd test the simulator eagerly if I thought there was a prayer of my being able to see the benefits on a linux desktop.

Until that happens, this is just one more step towards their viewer and server extensions becoming 'windows only'.

IMHO, that would be a tragedy. Us greybeards would like to use it too.

Cheers
James

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Tedd Hansen <tedd at nimbustech.no<mailto:tedd at nimbustech.no>> wrote:

Hi

Just a short/long correction. :)

OpenSim runs on .Net platform.

Microsoft has very clearly and widely defined CLS (Common Language Specification). CLS set in stone and not a moving target at all (ISO or something, don't remember).

CLS is what you will find in .Net Framework, mobile phones, Xbox 360, Zune, inside small hardware chips, Silverlight, Moonlight and Mono. There are also many compilers capable of transforming CLS compatible IL into stand alone .exe or even stand alone operating systems.

Around CLS you have CLR (Common Language Runtime). This is Microsoft extensions which puts more meat on the bone. From Version 1.0 to 3.5 I have found one change. The String.Split() function takes one more mandatory argument from 1.1 to 2.0. So also not a moving target. We are using CLR to some degree, but well within what Mono can handle.

C# is the language used for OpenSim. C# is compiled by any capable compiler down to CLS IL. Which in turn when executed is Just-In-Time compiled into whatever CPU/platform specific code is required.

Mono does an excellent job here. There is a memory leak here and a crash there, but you can hardly deny a piece of software like Mono right of life because it is under development.

So that said, OpenSim should run on Windows, Linux, BSD, MacOSX and SunOS. Without having tested it I don't see why it won't run on Xbox 360, Zune and mobile phones too. If it doesn't then it's just a matter of time before it does.

OpenSim has always been, is, and will be compatible with "both worlds".

When it comes to viewers then it's up to the community to do something about it. I don't see why we should not use a viewer only because it is Windows. Especially not one which without too much effort can be compiled to Linux.

A part of the world (90%) is using Windows - so independent development companies WILL target the masses first.

You are still free to use the standard viewer.

BR,

 Tedd

From: opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de<mailto:opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de> [mailto:opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de<mailto:opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de>] On Behalf Of James Stallings II
Sent: 3. desember 2008 21:57

To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de<mailto:opensim-users at lists.berlios.de>
Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] toward a new client

I too am a linux user. I'm also something of a linux dev. That necesarily means I'm probably not a c# dev, as I have made concious decisions to part company with windows many years ago. Additionally, as a result of that decision, my focus has been in any place but windows developement environments and programming languages.

True, I -have- become more familiar with c# since I began an association with this project - but what that association has taught me is that it isnt worth the trouble for me to develop for this project. Why? Because my only options are to switch platforms, or dev with mono. And mono, fwiw is not a truly compatible solution - issues with stability, memory, and an inability to closely track the moving target that is the microsoft .net runtime pretty well insure it will continue to be ineffective, at best, as a solution to the problem of addressing multiple platforms.

I absolutely beg the opensim core - stop drifting towards windows centricity. You made a commitment some time ago to be cross platform - follow through on the promise.

Everytime someone justifies a windows only application or framework in this project, it justifies the next such move. Eventually it will become very easy to justify opensim as a windows-only application. IMHO, that would be both travesty and tragedy.

Cheers
James

On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Charles Krinke <cfk at pacbell.net<mailto:cfk at pacbell.net>> wrote:

I would like to suggest that a "zealot" on IRC take this one and start a group testing and reporting on #opensim.

The Rex client should connect to an OpenSim region or a grid like OSGrid. It may have some problems, but this is the time to start getting configurations worked out and getting this client working on OpenSim more formally.

The Windows client is fine for now. Lets get it up and running and talk about it. The Rex folks have put a lot of effort in getting to this stage and we can help all of us by using and testing the Rex client and discussing it on our #opensim IRC channel on FreeNode.

"Zealot" needed now! Pay is non-existent, hours are long, glory is significant.

Charles

________________________________

From: Tedd Hansen <tedd at nimbustech.no<mailto:tedd at nimbustech.no>>

To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de<mailto:opensim-users at lists.berlios.de>

Sent: Wednesday, December 3, 2008 2:05:48 AM

Subject: Re: [Opensim-users] toward a new client

Hi

I must say I'm impressed. The graphics looks really nice, far far beyond
anything SL can offer both in looks and animation.
And the little game play demo must be among the best/most useful thing
I've ever seen in the Second Life universe.

For those here who haven't done it - I highly recommend you download
viewer and local server, unzip it and have a quick go at the game (click
statued fish to teleport outside).
I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised when you run it.

Looking forward to having the REX viewer/features work with vanilla
OpenSim+REX modules. :)
Great work!

BR,
Tedd

-----Original Message-----

From: opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de<mailto:opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de>

[mailto:opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de<mailto:opensim-users-bounces at lists.berlios.de>] On Behalf Of Paul
Fishwick
Sent: 1. desember 2008 20:55

To: opensim-users at lists.berlios.de<mailto:opensim-users at lists.berlios.de>

Subject: [Opensim-users] toward a new client

If you haven't tried it yet, go to:

http://www.realxtend.org/page.php?pg=downloads

and try out the new client and server. Apparently, later on this month
or
next, this viewer will connect to the opensim trunk (rather than the
forked
project that it is now).

The sea world is great! Lots of new features.

-p

--
Dr. Paul A. Fishwick          E-Mail: fishwick at cise.ufl.edu<mailto:fishwick at cise.ufl.edu>
Dept. of Computer & Info      Phone & FAX: (352) 392-1414
Science and Engineering      WWW: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick<http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick>
University of Florida          (PGP Key available at above WWW address)
P. O. Box 116120
332 Bldg. CSE, Gainesville, FL 32611-6120

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===================================
The wind
scours the earth for prayers
The night obscures them

http://osgrid.org
http://del.icio.us/SPQR
http://twitter.com/jstallings2
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49
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