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<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Well, since we can’t touch the viewer code yet,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Perhaps we could ask someone who can (maybe one of the OpenSL
folks) to see if they can take a good stab at compiling Rex for Linux. It’s not
like the Rex guys don’t want to see it happen, it’s just they don’t know how.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'>Adam<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";
color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de
[mailto:opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de] <b>On Behalf Of </b>James
Stallings II<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, 3 December 2008 3:01 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> opensim-users@lists.berlios.de<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Opensim-users] toward a new client<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
Simple compatibility is not in question - I'm well aware that opensim runs on
both windows and linux.<br>
<br>
That being said, having a language specification, however clear it may be, is
not exactly the same thing as having a working language.<br>
<br>
THAT being said, the 'crash here' and the 'memory leak there' are sufficient to
keep Nebadon busy restarting the OSGrid linux plazas, and the memory leaks are
sufficient to prevent us running more than a single region effectively on a
linux box with 1GB (typically, we can conservatively get about twice the bang
for the buck running the server on a windows platform).<br>
<br>
My concern is that as the "independent developement companies'' produce
progressively more code that runs only on windows (I'm mainly focussing on the
viewer here, as that is what we were actively discussing, at least initially),
we will get into a situation not unlike the one linux is in: it is percieved as
being a great server platform and a sorry desktop environment.<br>
<br>
I am TRULY desirous of using the rex code - I'd test the simulator eagerly if I
thought there was a prayer of my being able to see the benefits on a linux
desktop.<br>
<br>
Until that happens, this is just one more step towards their viewer and server
extensions becoming 'windows only'.<br>
<br>
IMHO, that would be a tragedy. Us greybeards would like to use it too.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
James<br>
<br>
<span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:45 PM, Tedd Hansen <<a
href="mailto:tedd@nimbustech.no">tedd@nimbustech.no</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi</span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Just a short/long
correction. :)</span><span lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>OpenSim runs on .Net
platform.</span><span lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Microsoft has very
clearly and widely defined CLS (Common Language Specification). CLS set in
stone and not a moving target at all (ISO or something, don't remember).</span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>CLS is what you will
find in .Net Framework, mobile phones, Xbox 360, Zune, inside small hardware
chips, Silverlight, Moonlight and Mono. There are also many compilers capable
of transforming CLS compatible IL into stand alone .exe or even stand alone
operating systems.</span><span lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Around CLS you have
CLR (Common Language Runtime). This is Microsoft extensions which puts more
meat on the bone. From Version 1.0 to 3.5 I have found one change. The
String.Split() function takes one more mandatory argument from 1.1 to 2.0. So
also not a moving target. We are using CLR to some degree, but well within what
Mono can handle.</span><span lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>C# is the language
used for OpenSim. C# is compiled by any capable compiler down to CLS IL. Which
in turn when executed is Just-In-Time compiled into whatever CPU/platform
specific code is required.</span><span lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Mono does an
excellent job here. There is a memory leak here and a crash there, but you can
hardly deny a piece of software like Mono right of life because it is under
development.</span><span lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>So that said,
OpenSim should run on Windows, Linux, BSD, MacOSX and SunOS. Without having
tested it I don't see why it won't run on Xbox 360, Zune and mobile phones too.
If it doesn't then it's just a matter of time before it does.</span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>OpenSim has always
been, is, and will be compatible with "both worlds".</span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>When it comes to
viewers then it's up to the community to do something about it. I don't see why
we should not use a viewer only because it is Windows. Especially not one which
without too much effort can be compiled to Linux. </span><span lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>A part of the world
(90%) is using Windows - so independent development companies WILL target the
masses first.</span><span lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>You are still free
to use the standard viewer.</span><span lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>BR,</span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> Tedd</span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'> </span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style='border:none;border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;
border-color:-moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color'>
<p><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'> <a
href="mailto:opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>James Stallings II<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 3. desember 2008 21:57<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'>Subject:</span></b><span
lang=EN-US style='font-size:10.0pt'> Re: [Opensim-users] toward a new client<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span lang=EN-US> </span><span lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=NO-BOK>I too am a linux user. I'm
also something of a linux dev. That necesarily means I'm probably not a c# dev,
as I have made concious decisions to part company with windows many years ago.
Additionally, as a result of that decision, my focus has been in any place but
windows developement environments and programming languages.<br>
<br>
True, I -have- become more familiar with c# since I began an association with
this project - but what that association has taught me is that it isnt worth
the trouble for me to develop for this project. Why? Because my only options
are to switch platforms, or dev with mono. And mono, fwiw is not a truly
compatible solution - issues with stability, memory, and an inability to
closely track the moving target that is the microsoft .net runtime pretty well
insure it will continue to be ineffective, at best, as a solution to the
problem of addressing multiple platforms.<br>
<br>
I absolutely beg the opensim core - stop drifting towards windows centricity.
You made a commitment some time ago to be cross platform - follow through on
the promise.<br>
<br>
Everytime someone justifies a windows only application or framework in this
project, it justifies the next such move. Eventually it will become very easy
to justify opensim as a windows-only application. IMHO, that would be both
travesty and tragedy.<br>
<br>
Cheers<br>
James<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span lang=NO-BOK>On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 11:47 AM, Charles Krinke <<a
href="mailto:cfk@pacbell.net" target="_blank">cfk@pacbell.net</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span lang=NO-BOK>I would like to suggest that a "zealot" on IRC
take this one and start a group testing and reporting on #opensim.<br>
<br>
The Rex client should connect to an OpenSim region or a grid like OSGrid. It may
have some problems, but this is the time to start getting configurations worked
out and getting this client working on OpenSim more formally.<br>
<br>
The Windows client is fine for now. Lets get it up and running and talk about
it. The Rex folks have put a lot of effort in getting to this stage and we can
help all of us by using and testing the Rex client and discussing it on our
#opensim IRC channel on FreeNode.<br>
<br>
"Zealot" needed now! Pay is non-existent, hours are long, glory is
significant.<br>
<br>
Charles<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span lang=NO-BOK> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span lang=NO-BOK
style='font-size:10.0pt'>
<hr size=1 width="100%" align=center>
</span></div>
<p><b><span lang=NO-BOK style='font-size:10.0pt'>From:</span></b><span
lang=NO-BOK style='font-size:10.0pt'> Tedd Hansen <<a
href="mailto:tedd@nimbustech.no" target="_blank">tedd@nimbustech.no</a>></span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span lang=NO-BOK style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a></span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p><b><span lang=NO-BOK style='font-size:10.0pt'>Sent:</span></b><span
lang=NO-BOK style='font-size:10.0pt'> Wednesday, December 3, 2008 2:05:48 AM</span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p><span lang=NO-BOK style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Opensim-users] toward a new client</span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span lang=NO-BOK style='font-size:10.0pt'><br>
Hi<br>
<br>
I must say I'm impressed. The graphics looks really nice, far far beyond<br>
anything SL can offer both in looks and animation.<br>
And the little game play demo must be among the best/most useful thing<br>
I've ever seen in the Second Life universe.<br>
<br>
For those here who haven't done it - I highly recommend you download<br>
viewer and local server, unzip it and have a quick go at the game (click<br>
statued fish to teleport outside).<br>
I think you'll be very pleasantly surprised when you run it.<br>
<br>
Looking forward to having the REX viewer/features work with vanilla<br>
OpenSim+REX modules. :)<br>
Great work!<br>
<br>
BR,<br>
Tedd<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----</span><span lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span lang=NO-BOK style='font-size:10.0pt'>From: <a
href="mailto:opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a></span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span lang=NO-BOK style='font-size:10.0pt'>[mailto:<a
href="mailto:opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users-bounces@lists.berlios.de</a>]
On Behalf Of Paul<br>
Fishwick<br>
Sent: 1. desember 2008 20:55</span><span lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><span lang=NO-BOK style='font-size:10.0pt'>To: <a
href="mailto:opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a></span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p><span lang=NO-BOK style='font-size:10.0pt'>Subject: [Opensim-users] toward a
new client<br>
<br>
If you haven't tried it yet, go to:<br>
<br>
<a href="http://www.realxtend.org/page.php?pg=downloads" target="_blank">http://www.realxtend.org/page.php?pg=downloads</a><br>
<br>
and try out the new client and server. Apparently, later on this month<br>
or<br>
next, this viewer will connect to the opensim trunk (rather than the<br>
forked<br>
project that it is now).<br>
<br>
The sea world is great! Lots of new features.<br>
<br>
-p<br>
<br>
-- <br>
Dr. Paul A. Fishwick E-Mail: <a
href="mailto:fishwick@cise.ufl.edu" target="_blank">fishwick@cise.ufl.edu</a><br>
Dept. of Computer & Info Phone & FAX: (352)
392-1414<br>
Science and Engineering WWW: <a
href="http://www.cise.ufl.edu/%7Efishwick" target="_blank">http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick</a><br>
University of Florida (PGP Key available at
above WWW address)<br>
P. O. Box 116120<br>
332 Bldg. CSE, Gainesville, FL 32611-6120<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Opensim-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Opensim-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a></span><span
lang=NO-BOK><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span lang=NO-BOK><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Opensim-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p><span lang=NO-BOK><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
===================================<br>
The wind<br>
scours the earth for prayers<br>
The night obscures them<br>
<br>
<a href="http://osgrid.org" target="_blank">http://osgrid.org</a><br>
<a href="http://del.icio.us/SPQR" target="_blank">http://del.icio.us/SPQR</a><br>
<a href="http://twitter.com/jstallings2" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/jstallings2</a><br>
<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49" target="_blank">http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
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</div>
<p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Opensim-users mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-users@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users"
target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-users</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=MsoNormal><br>
<br clear=all>
<br>
-- <br>
===================================<br>
The wind<br>
scours the earth for prayers<br>
The night obscures them<br>
<br>
<a href="http://osgrid.org">http://osgrid.org</a><br>
<a href="http://del.icio.us/SPQR">http://del.icio.us/SPQR</a><br>
<a href="http://twitter.com/jstallings2">http://twitter.com/jstallings2</a><br>
<a href="http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49">http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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