[Opensim-dev] Harvesting code from forks of Opensim
Fly Man
fly.man.opensim at gmail.com
Wed May 27 18:41:40 UTC 2015
Well, feel free to share that incomplete list with us so people know which
functions you're looking at.
And yes, AuroraSim's LSL_Api.cs list is a lot shorter then the one in
WhiteCore because of the recent changes we made to LSL functions.
That's why I am kinda amazed that you found "old" LSL functions that aren't
in OpenSim yet or not implemented.
2015-05-27 17:53 GMT+02:00 W Smith <wanderingcodesmith at yahoo.co.uk>:
> Fly Man
>
> I only have a probably incomplete list of LSL functions (25 at them
> moment) that are missing from OpenSim. I have no idea how many have been
> implemented in Aurora. The only one I looked at in Aurora so far were the
> LL json functions, the first on my list.
>
> You appear to be wrong about needing AA* functions, the code for the LL
> Json functions that I got from aurora sim was not from and contained no
> references to any AA* functions. You may have an older version or perhaps a
> more recent from WhiteCore I have not looked there, I only found out
> WhiteCore existed yesterday.
> I got a copy from https://github.com/aurora-sim/Aurora-Sim a week or so
> ago.
> See
> https://github.com/aurora-sim/Aurora-Sim/blob/master/Aurora/AuroraDotNetEngine/APIs/LSL_Api.cs
> for their implentation.
>
> The code from Aurora sim compiled in OpenSim merely by adding "using
> OpenMetaverse.StructuredData;". No other libraries were added by me, I am
> just using the OSD library supplied from the OpensSim git repository.
>
> The Aurora implementation is plain wrong, its results differ from those of
> SL LSL, it requires a number of changes to correct the outputs. Also
> changes to cope with OpenSim allowing native c# data types to be added to
> an lsl_list, lots of defensive type checking required to avoid casting
> errors.
>
> My original intention was to work down my list of functions and submit
> either a patch with an implementation or failing that a patch with the
> "plumbing" and a "not implemented" implementation in LSL_Api
>
> Regards Talun
>
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 27/5/15, Fly Man <fly.man.opensim at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Harvesting code from forks of Opensim
> To: opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
> Date: Wednesday, 27 May, 2015, 12:53
>
> Talun,
>
> Let me quote 2 pieces out of your
> reply:
>
> "First of all I
> have no interest in extracting anything from the AA*
> functions or any other part of Aurora-Sim that is not
> required by LSL
> functions."
> If you are
> able to compile a list of the functions that are missing /
> lacking in OpenSim and that work in AuroraSim, that would be
> a great help.
>
> But as
> I mentioned before, some of the functions you see as LSL
> functions are bound in with the implementations for
> aaFunctions.
>
> As
> an example, the llJson function you mentioned ties in with
> the aa function for it, using a different approach to JSON
> as the LibOMV wasn't upgraded back then. The latest
> LibOMV has the JSON implementation much easier and better
> then the one in AuroraSim.
>
> "A few parts of the Aurora sim function
> are usable (general looping
> structure) as is but most require changes to correct the
> differences
> with SLs version."
>
> "None will probably be a direct
> fit to OpenSim but there will be some degree of
> copy/paste"
>
> My personal conclusion: Talun is
> gonna create a list of the LSL functions that are in
> AuroraSim which don't exist in OpenSim or are not
> implemented correctly and he's gonna donate his time to
> rewrite them all so they can be send in as a patch for
> OpenSim.
>
> That sounds like a
> good starting point to me
> 2015-05-27 3:44 GMT+02:00
> Dahlia Trimble <dahliatrimble at gmail.com>:
> There is a OSD
> library which is part of libopenmetaverse. That
> implementation is
> compatible with the OpenSimulator license and the JSON
> implementation in it is
> fairly robust and used extensively in OpenSimulator.
> "ll*" functions
> are usually documented on http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Portal
> and
> that site is generally regarded as the canonical
> reference.
> On Tue, May 26, 2015 at
> 6:33 PM, W Smith <wanderingcodesmith at yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
> I have no
> idea how the idea of importing these AA* functions got into
> this thread my interest is in implementing LSL.
>
>
>
> I was intending implementing some of the 24+ unimplemented
> LSL ll* functions that OpenSim lacks. I was going to look
> for "inspiration and assistance" in doing this in
> the Aurora sim implementations.
>
>
>
> None will probably be a direct fit to OpenSim but there will
> be some degree of copy/paste
>
>
>
> Talun
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
> On Wed, 27/5/15, Morgaine <morgaine.dinova at googlemail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Harvesting code from forks of
> Opensim
>
> To: opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>
> Cc: "Morgaine Dinova" <morgaine.dinova at googlemail.com>
>
> Date: Wednesday, 27 May, 2015, 1:28
>
>
>
> Fly Man writes:
>
> > and my
>
> -1 was meant to say "Please do not put things that
> no
>
> one knows about in OpenSim"
>
>
>
> +1 for that
>
> -1. :-)
>
>
>
> Your point applies to all FOSS code of
>
> course, not just Opensim. Undocumented or minimally
>
> documented code is a liability, not an asset, even if
>
> it's a million lines of alleged
>
> "awesomeness".
>
>
>
> The D/C ratio is not a perfect metric,
>
> but when it's near zero then you know that there's
> a
>
> problem.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 27, 2015 at
>
> 1:18 AM, Fly Man <fly.man.opensim at gmail.com>
>
> wrote:
>
> Let me answer most
>
> questions that have been shooting up in my personal
> mailbox
>
> which have to do with Opensim as a project.
>
>
>
> I'll start with
>
> perhaps the most easy part of the discussion:
> AuroraSim.
>
>
>
> AuroraSim is a derivated
>
> from OpenSim, forked on the 14th of October 2010 after
> Rev
>
> (RevolutionSmythe) decided that Opensim wasn't
> going
>
> into the way he personally had seen. He decided to fork
> the
>
> Opensim tree and renamed it to AuroraSim. In the years
>
> following he upgraded parts of the source-code and added
> a
>
> set of new functional code parts knows as the
>
> aaFunctions.
>
>
>
> These
>
> functions are based on the code that he wrote at that
> moment
>
> for the AuroraSim branch. Remember, this is an OLDER copy
> of
>
> what the current Opensim branch is now. Most of the
>
> functions in there won't ever work in Opensim
> mainly
>
> because Opensim does not have these older hooks.
>
>
>
> In 2013 Rev was done
>
> with his education and decided to start working which
>
> brought AuroraSim to a slower moving branch and patches
>
> weren't applied instantly anymore. The last patch
> that
>
> was applied to the sourcecode was Jan 2014 and the
> project
>
> slowly died.
>
>
>
> So,
>
> currently there's no maintainer of any of the code
> that
>
> was/is in AuroraSim other then what is currently in
> that
>
> GitHub repository.
>
>
>
> Now here comes the part which Kevin
>
> already mentioned: "The fork is called
>
> WhiteCore"
>
>
>
> Indeed, WhiteCore is a fork of
>
> AuroraSim after I personally saw what was happening to
>
> AuroraSim. I had been watching the slow pace for a
> longer
>
> period of time and already had found 2 other people that
> had
>
> the same "issue". So in December 2013
> AuroraSim
>
> was forked and re-based as WhiteCoreSim.
>
>
>
> Currently in development with 2
>
> other developers, I am 1 of the 3 lead developers that
>
> actively maintain that "fork" although
> it's
>
> not even close to what the endgoal for it will be.
>
>
>
> 1 thing that we
>
> broke "on purpose" when we changed the name is
> the
>
> aaFunctions because only Rev knows exactly how they are
>
> meant to work. At the moment there's no other person
> who
>
> knows what exactly the functions are meant to do other
> then
>
> a better way to have NPC's spawn and some basic
>
> functions that mimic the osFunctions.
>
>
>
> Conclusion: There's no developer
>
> at the moment that can look into Rev's head from a
>
> distance and ask him how the functions are meant to work
> (if
>
> they still work at all) and my -1 was meant to say
>
> "Please do not put things that no one knows about
> in
>
> OpenSim"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2015-05-27 1:58 GMT+02:00
>
> Dahlia Trimble <dahliatrimble at gmail.com>:
>
> Just to clarify on
>
> the slight chance it was missed, I wasn't
> suggesting
>
> anyone "fork off" in any sense of the term.
> Many
>
> forks, both public and private, already exist and I
> suspect
>
> more will come about. My hope is that the community
> will
>
> survuve and even thrive beyond any code fork.
>
>
>
> On Tue,
>
> May 26, 2015 at 4:22 PM, Morgaine <morgaine.dinova at googlemail.com>
>
> wrote:
>
> Dahlia writes:
>
> >
>
> I'd like to see disagreement and forks as a means
> to
>
> drive innovation rather than conflict.
>
>
>
> More often than not,
>
> real project forking into separate projects (not just
>
> forking in the github sense) implies an inability or lack
> of
>
> desire to find a meeting of minds with technical peers.
>
>
>
> If requirements are
>
> dramatically different then project forking can be a
> very
>
> reasonable way forward, and to the benefit of
> everybody.
>
> But if the requirements are really quite similar then
>
> forking is more likely an indication of inflexibility
> and
>
> intransigence by one or both parties. The communal
>
> engineering process has probably failed.
>
>
>
> This is a
>
> technical project, so it's inherently different to
>
> discussing the merits of cat pictures -- discussions can
> be
>
> objective. A rationally presented suggestion or even
> a
>
> strong criticism presented in good faith is not a reason
> for
>
> telling people to fork off. If that is the response
> then
>
> it's a sign of extreme project ill health.
>
>
>
> Negative feedback
>
> is intrinsic to good engineering, and all good
> engineers
>
> embrace it. That's not theoretical. Without it
> a
>
> project's direction would never change to take into
>
> consideration the bitter lessons of experience.
>
>
>
> Morgaine.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 26, 2015 at
>
> 11:35 PM, Dahlia Trimble <dahliatrimble at gmail.com>
>
> wrote:
>
> Apparently there is still a fair bit of passion
>
> about this platform and I prefer to see this in a
> manner
>
> where people can use the code in a way they see fit and
> to
>
> (hopefully) contribute back something or pay it forward
> in
>
> other ways as appropriate. I'm not opposed to forks
> but
>
> I'd hope civil discourse can be maintained even
> through
>
> the times when much disagreement looms. I would hope
> that
>
> various forks and branches could benefit from each other
> and
>
> the community as a whole can thereby benefit. I'd
> like
>
> to see disagreement and forks as a means to drive
> innovation
>
> rather than conflict.
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 26, 2015 at
>
> 2:14 PM, Morgaine <morgaine.dinova at googlemail.com>
>
> wrote:
>
> Good data, thanks Cinder. It doesn't
>
> look like death to me.
>
>
>
> You clearly have some elite query-foo
>
> skills, can you generate a historical list of commits
> per
>
> month and per year? This is a very strong way of
> debunking
>
> allegations of death! :P
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 26,
>
> 2015 at 10:05 PM, Cinder Roxley <cinder at alchemyviewer.org>
>
> wrote:
>
> On May 26, 2015 at 2:59:54
>
> PM, Morgaine (morgaine.dinova at googlemail.com)
>
> wrote: I'm just an observer
>
> on this project, albeit a very long term one, dating back
> to
>
> near the beginning. One thing that long-term observers
> are
>
> well qualified to do is to confirm or to deny the
> veracity
>
> of allegations of long-term trends.
>
>
>
> Mike Chase's allegation that
>
>
>
> "OpenSim is slowly dieing
>
> (IMO) from neglect"
>
>
>
> is clearly unfounded since commits show
>
> no sign of stopping. I haven't checked the rate
> of
>
> commits so perhaps Mike has more information in this
>
> regard. I welcome better
>
> information.https://www.openhub.net/p/opensimulator/commits/summary--
>
> Cinder
>
> Roxley
>
> Sent
>
> with Airmail
>
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