<div dir="ltr"><div><div>Well, feel free to share that incomplete list with us so people know which functions you're looking at.<br><br></div>And yes, AuroraSim's LSL_Api.cs list is a lot shorter then the one in WhiteCore because of the recent changes we made to LSL functions.<br><br></div>That's why I am kinda amazed that you found "old" LSL functions that aren't in OpenSim yet or not implemented.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2015-05-27 17:53 GMT+02:00 W Smith <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:wanderingcodesmith@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">wanderingcodesmith@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Fly Man<br>
<br>
I only have a probably incomplete list of LSL functions (25 at them moment) that are missing from OpenSim. I have no idea how many have been implemented in Aurora. The only one I looked at in Aurora so far were the LL json functions, the first on my list.<br>
<br>
You appear to be wrong about needing AA* functions, the code for the LL Json functions that I got from aurora sim was not from and contained no references to any AA* functions. You may have an older version or perhaps a more recent from WhiteCore I have not looked there, I only found out WhiteCore existed yesterday.<br>
I got a copy from <a href="https://github.com/aurora-sim/Aurora-Sim" target="_blank">https://github.com/aurora-sim/Aurora-Sim</a> a week or so ago.<br>
See <a href="https://github.com/aurora-sim/Aurora-Sim/blob/master/Aurora/AuroraDotNetEngine/APIs/LSL_Api.cs" target="_blank">https://github.com/aurora-sim/Aurora-Sim/blob/master/Aurora/AuroraDotNetEngine/APIs/LSL_Api.cs</a> for their implentation.<br>
<br>
The code from Aurora sim compiled in OpenSim merely by adding "using OpenMetaverse.StructuredData;". No other libraries were added by me, I am just using the OSD library supplied from the OpensSim git repository.<br>
<br>
The Aurora implementation is plain wrong, its results differ from those of SL LSL, it requires a number of changes to correct the outputs. Also changes to cope with OpenSim allowing native c# data types to be added to an lsl_list, lots of defensive type checking required to avoid casting errors.<br>
<br>
My original intention was to work down my list of functions and submit either a patch with an implementation or failing that a patch with the "plumbing" and a "not implemented" implementation in LSL_Api<br>
<br>
Regards Talun<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
<span class="">On Wed, 27/5/15, Fly Man <<a href="mailto:fly.man.opensim@gmail.com">fly.man.opensim@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Harvesting code from forks of Opensim<br>
To: <a href="mailto:opensim-dev@opensimulator.org">opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
</span> Date: Wednesday, 27 May, 2015, 12:53<br>
<div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><br>
Talun,<br>
<br>
Let me quote 2 pieces out of your<br>
reply:<br>
<br>
"First of all I<br>
have no interest in extracting anything from the AA*<br>
functions or any other part of Aurora-Sim that is not<br>
required by LSL<br>
functions."<br>
If you are<br>
able to compile a list of the functions that are missing /<br>
lacking in OpenSim and that work in AuroraSim, that would be<br>
a great help.<br>
<br>
But as<br>
I mentioned before, some of the functions you see as LSL<br>
functions are bound in with the implementations for<br>
aaFunctions.<br>
<br>
As<br>
an example, the llJson function you mentioned ties in with<br>
the aa function for it, using a different approach to JSON<br>
as the LibOMV wasn't upgraded back then. The latest<br>
LibOMV has the JSON implementation much easier and better<br>
then the one in AuroraSim.<br>
<br>
"A few parts of the Aurora sim function<br>
are usable (general looping<br>
structure) as is but most require changes to correct the<br>
differences<br>
with SLs version."<br>
<br>
"None will probably be a direct<br>
fit to OpenSim but there will be some degree of<br>
copy/paste"<br>
<br>
My personal conclusion: Talun is<br>
gonna create a list of the LSL functions that are in<br>
AuroraSim which don't exist in OpenSim or are not<br>
implemented correctly and he's gonna donate his time to<br>
rewrite them all so they can be send in as a patch for<br>
OpenSim.<br>
<br>
That sounds like a<br>
good starting point to me<br>
2015-05-27 3:44 GMT+02:00<br>
Dahlia Trimble <<a href="mailto:dahliatrimble@gmail.com">dahliatrimble@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
There is a OSD<br>
library which is part of libopenmetaverse. That<br>
implementation is<br>
compatible with the OpenSimulator license and the JSON<br>
implementation in it is<br>
fairly robust and used extensively in OpenSimulator.<br>
"ll*" functions<br>
are usually documented on <a href="http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Portal" target="_blank">http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LSL_Portal</a><br>
and<br>
that site is generally regarded as the canonical<br>
reference.<br>
On Tue, May 26, 2015 at<br>
6:33 PM, W Smith <<a href="mailto:wanderingcodesmith@yahoo.co.uk">wanderingcodesmith@yahoo.co.uk</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
I have no<br>
idea how the idea of importing these AA* functions got into<br>
this thread my interest is in implementing LSL.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I was intending implementing some of the 24+ unimplemented<br>
LSL ll* functions that OpenSim lacks. I was going to look<br>
for "inspiration and assistance" in doing this in<br>
the Aurora sim implementations.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
None will probably be a direct fit to OpenSim but there will<br>
be some degree of copy/paste<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Talun<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
On Wed, 27/5/15, Morgaine <<a href="mailto:morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com">morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Harvesting code from forks of<br>
Opensim<br>
<br>
To: <a href="mailto:opensim-dev@opensimulator.org">opensim-dev@opensimulator.org</a><br>
<br>
Cc: "Morgaine Dinova" <<a href="mailto:morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com">morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com</a>><br>
<br>
Date: Wednesday, 27 May, 2015, 1:28<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Fly Man writes:<br>
<br>
> and my<br>
<br>
-1 was meant to say "Please do not put things that<br>
no<br>
<br>
one knows about in OpenSim"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
+1 for that<br>
<br>
-1. :-)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Your point applies to all FOSS code of<br>
<br>
course, not just Opensim. Undocumented or minimally<br>
<br>
documented code is a liability, not an asset, even if<br>
<br>
it's a million lines of alleged<br>
<br>
"awesomeness".<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The D/C ratio is not a perfect metric,<br>
<br>
but when it's near zero then you know that there's<br>
a<br>
<br>
problem.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Wed, May 27, 2015 at<br>
<br>
1:18 AM, Fly Man <<a href="mailto:fly.man.opensim@gmail.com">fly.man.opensim@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Let me answer most<br>
<br>
questions that have been shooting up in my personal<br>
mailbox<br>
<br>
which have to do with Opensim as a project.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I'll start with<br>
<br>
perhaps the most easy part of the discussion:<br>
AuroraSim.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
AuroraSim is a derivated<br>
<br>
from OpenSim, forked on the 14th of October 2010 after<br>
Rev<br>
<br>
(RevolutionSmythe) decided that Opensim wasn't<br>
going<br>
<br>
into the way he personally had seen. He decided to fork<br>
the<br>
<br>
Opensim tree and renamed it to AuroraSim. In the years<br>
<br>
following he upgraded parts of the source-code and added<br>
a<br>
<br>
set of new functional code parts knows as the<br>
<br>
aaFunctions.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
These<br>
<br>
functions are based on the code that he wrote at that<br>
moment<br>
<br>
for the AuroraSim branch. Remember, this is an OLDER copy<br>
of<br>
<br>
what the current Opensim branch is now. Most of the<br>
<br>
functions in there won't ever work in Opensim<br>
mainly<br>
<br>
because Opensim does not have these older hooks.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
In 2013 Rev was done<br>
<br>
with his education and decided to start working which<br>
<br>
brought AuroraSim to a slower moving branch and patches<br>
<br>
weren't applied instantly anymore. The last patch<br>
that<br>
<br>
was applied to the sourcecode was Jan 2014 and the<br>
project<br>
<br>
slowly died.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
So,<br>
<br>
currently there's no maintainer of any of the code<br>
that<br>
<br>
was/is in AuroraSim other then what is currently in<br>
that<br>
<br>
GitHub repository.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Now here comes the part which Kevin<br>
<br>
already mentioned: "The fork is called<br>
<br>
WhiteCore"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Indeed, WhiteCore is a fork of<br>
<br>
AuroraSim after I personally saw what was happening to<br>
<br>
AuroraSim. I had been watching the slow pace for a<br>
longer<br>
<br>
period of time and already had found 2 other people that<br>
had<br>
<br>
the same "issue". So in December 2013<br>
AuroraSim<br>
<br>
was forked and re-based as WhiteCoreSim.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Currently in development with 2<br>
<br>
other developers, I am 1 of the 3 lead developers that<br>
<br>
actively maintain that "fork" although<br>
it's<br>
<br>
not even close to what the endgoal for it will be.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
1 thing that we<br>
<br>
broke "on purpose" when we changed the name is<br>
the<br>
<br>
aaFunctions because only Rev knows exactly how they are<br>
<br>
meant to work. At the moment there's no other person<br>
who<br>
<br>
knows what exactly the functions are meant to do other<br>
then<br>
<br>
a better way to have NPC's spawn and some basic<br>
<br>
functions that mimic the osFunctions.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Conclusion: There's no developer<br>
<br>
at the moment that can look into Rev's head from a<br>
<br>
distance and ask him how the functions are meant to work<br>
(if<br>
<br>
they still work at all) and my -1 was meant to say<br>
<br>
"Please do not put things that no one knows about<br>
in<br>
<br>
OpenSim"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
2015-05-27 1:58 GMT+02:00<br>
<br>
Dahlia Trimble <<a href="mailto:dahliatrimble@gmail.com">dahliatrimble@gmail.com</a>>:<br>
<br>
Just to clarify on<br>
<br>
the slight chance it was missed, I wasn't<br>
suggesting<br>
<br>
anyone "fork off" in any sense of the term.<br>
Many<br>
<br>
forks, both public and private, already exist and I<br>
suspect<br>
<br>
more will come about. My hope is that the community<br>
will<br>
<br>
survuve and even thrive beyond any code fork.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue,<br>
<br>
May 26, 2015 at 4:22 PM, Morgaine <<a href="mailto:morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com">morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com</a>><br>
<br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Dahlia writes:<br>
<br>
><br>
<br>
I'd like to see disagreement and forks as a means<br>
to<br>
<br>
drive innovation rather than conflict.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
More often than not,<br>
<br>
real project forking into separate projects (not just<br>
<br>
forking in the github sense) implies an inability or lack<br>
of<br>
<br>
desire to find a meeting of minds with technical peers.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
If requirements are<br>
<br>
dramatically different then project forking can be a<br>
very<br>
<br>
reasonable way forward, and to the benefit of<br>
everybody. <br>
<br>
But if the requirements are really quite similar then<br>
<br>
forking is more likely an indication of inflexibility<br>
and<br>
<br>
intransigence by one or both parties. The communal<br>
<br>
engineering process has probably failed.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
This is a<br>
<br>
technical project, so it's inherently different to<br>
<br>
discussing the merits of cat pictures -- discussions can<br>
be<br>
<br>
objective. A rationally presented suggestion or even<br>
a<br>
<br>
strong criticism presented in good faith is not a reason<br>
for<br>
<br>
telling people to fork off. If that is the response<br>
then<br>
<br>
it's a sign of extreme project ill health.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Negative feedback<br>
<br>
is intrinsic to good engineering, and all good<br>
engineers<br>
<br>
embrace it. That's not theoretical. Without it<br>
a<br>
<br>
project's direction would never change to take into<br>
<br>
consideration the bitter lessons of experience.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Morgaine.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, May 26, 2015 at<br>
<br>
11:35 PM, Dahlia Trimble <<a href="mailto:dahliatrimble@gmail.com">dahliatrimble@gmail.com</a>><br>
<br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Apparently there is still a fair bit of passion<br>
<br>
about this platform and I prefer to see this in a<br>
manner<br>
<br>
where people can use the code in a way they see fit and<br>
to<br>
<br>
(hopefully) contribute back something or pay it forward<br>
in<br>
<br>
other ways as appropriate. I'm not opposed to forks<br>
but<br>
<br>
I'd hope civil discourse can be maintained even<br>
through<br>
<br>
the times when much disagreement looms. I would hope<br>
that<br>
<br>
various forks and branches could benefit from each other<br>
and<br>
<br>
the community as a whole can thereby benefit. I'd<br>
like<br>
<br>
to see disagreement and forks as a means to drive<br>
innovation<br>
<br>
rather than conflict.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, May 26, 2015 at<br>
<br>
2:14 PM, Morgaine <<a href="mailto:morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com">morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com</a>><br>
<br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
Good data, thanks Cinder. It doesn't<br>
<br>
look like death to me.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
You clearly have some elite query-foo<br>
<br>
skills, can you generate a historical list of commits<br>
per<br>
<br>
month and per year? This is a very strong way of<br>
debunking<br>
<br>
allegations of death! :P<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, May 26,<br>
<br>
2015 at 10:05 PM, Cinder Roxley <<a href="mailto:cinder@alchemyviewer.org">cinder@alchemyviewer.org</a>><br>
<br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
On May 26, 2015 at 2:59:54<br>
<br>
PM, Morgaine (<a href="mailto:morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com">morgaine.dinova@googlemail.com</a>)<br>
<br>
wrote: I'm just an observer<br>
<br>
on this project, albeit a very long term one, dating back<br>
to<br>
<br>
near the beginning. One thing that long-term observers<br>
are<br>
<br>
well qualified to do is to confirm or to deny the<br>
veracity<br>
<br>
of allegations of long-term trends.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mike Chase's allegation that<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
"OpenSim is slowly dieing<br>
<br>
(IMO) from neglect"<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
is clearly unfounded since commits show<br>
<br>
no sign of stopping. I haven't checked the rate<br>
of<br>
<br>
commits so perhaps Mike has more information in this<br>
<br>
regard. I welcome better<br>
<br>
information.<a href="https://www.openhub.net/p/opensimulator/commits/summary--" target="_blank">https://www.openhub.net/p/opensimulator/commits/summary--</a> <br>
<br>
Cinder<br>
<br>
Roxley<br>
<br>
Sent<br>
<br>
with Airmail<br>
<br>
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</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>