[Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
Frank Nichols
j.frank.nichols at gmail.com
Sun Apr 26 00:08:08 UTC 2015
Thank you
Sent from my iPad Air 2
> On Apr 25, 2015, at 7:57 PM, Dahlia Trimble <dahliatrimble at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yes OpenSimulator can use all the help it can get. My messages were intended to help bring the MOSES contributions into core in a way that many can benefit, and to raise awareness of some caveats. I hope they weren't misinterpreted by those who are involved in contributing.
>
>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 4:50 PM, Frank Nichols <j.frank.nichols at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Accepted. But i am not concerned with my feelings, i am concerned with the future of OS.
>>
>> We need help. I cant help, but others can - Intel, Moses, numerous groups in Academia. Many would like to help, we just need to balance the pain of breaking backwards compatibility with the benefits of funded research into making OS better for all of us.
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> Sent from my iPad Air 2
>>
>>> On Apr 25, 2015, at 7:38 PM, Dahlia Trimble <dahliatrimble at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> My apologies for upsetting you, Frank. Perhaps it was the use of the phrase "academic dishonesty" which influenced my prior message.
>>>
>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Frank Nichols <j.frank.nichols at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Jezz, seriously, this is how you expect to garner serious support from people that can advance OS beyond being a toy that a few people play with.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Apr 25, 2015, at 6:01 PM, Dahlia Trimble <dahliatrimble at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It is indeed unfortunate that questionable results may have been propagated. Please bear in mind that few, if any, developers of OpenSimulator have committed to producing a software which is intended for such purposes. There are likely many artifices in OpenSimulator and in 3D graphics applications in general. I would *strongly suggest* that those who attempt to use the software for such purposes take responsibility for understanding the applicability of this software for their purposes.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will also suggest that a review of the license for OpenSimulator might be in order, quoted here for your convenience:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
>>>>> * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are met:
>>>>> * * Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
>>>>> * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
>>>>> * * Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyrightD
>>>>> * notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
>>>>> * documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
>>>>> * * Neither the name of the OpenSimulator Project nor the
>>>>> * names of its contributors may be used to endorse or promote products
>>>>> * derived from this software without specific prior written permission.
>>>>> *
>>>>> * THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE DEVELOPERS ``AS IS'' AND ANY
>>>>> * EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTIES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED
>>>>> * WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE ARE
>>>>> * DISCLAIMED. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE CONTRIBUTORS BE LIABLE FOR ANY
>>>>> * DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES
>>>>> * (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS OR SERVICES;
>>>>> * LOSS OF USE, DATA, OR PROFITS; OR BUSINESS INTERRUPTION) HOWEVER CAUSED AND
>>>>> * ON ANY THEORY OF LIABILITY, WHETHER IN CONTRACT, STRICT LIABILITY, OR TORT
>>>>> * (INCLUDING NEGLIGENCE OR OTHERWISE) ARISING IN ANY WAY OUT OF THE USE OF THIS
>>>>> * SOFTWARE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGE."
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Apr 25, 2015 at 4:39 AM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <douglas.maxwell3.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
>>>>>> Good design principles reduce complexity while maintaining or increasing functionality. I am not in support of the idea of introducing multiplier variables into the ini file. This is for a number of reasons, one being there are a large number of multiplier variables that could be needed and the ini file is already complicated enough. Adding more variables and code, rather than fixing bad code is not a responsible solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a gut-check opportunity for the devs. At some point in the past, somebody made the decision to artificially inflate these numbers and now (years later), that mistake has caught up with us. The longer you wait, the more painful the correction will be. It should be corrected, and any monitoring tools updated. It is the responsible course of action.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We are attempting to help you by addressing physics and networking issues within the Open Simulator. Step Zero of this process is trusting the simulator statistics.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>>>>>> Science and Technology Manager
>>>>>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>>>>>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>>>>>> Human Research & Engineering Directorate
>>>>>> Simulation & Training Technology Center
>>>>>> (c) (407) 242-0209
>>>>>> From: opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org [opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org] on behalf of Michael Emory Cerquoni [nebadon2025 at gmail.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 8:59 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To: opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What do you think about making the multiplier a modifiable variable in OpenSim.ini? This will allow anyone who wants to improve performance and use the stock #'s and in the meantime people can continue to use the code in a meaningful way without having to rewrite scripts and monitoring tools to continue testing other code that may be pushed into core, especially if the end goal is to get statistics to report back at the original numbers? I am mostly just trying to understand the end goal myself. If that is not possible I would suggest this work be moved into a development branch until we can get statistics back to the normal numbers again? Otherwise we are talking about locking the code down to all other development until this process is complete, and no one has discussed any kind of time frame for this level of changes to complete, I would hate to put a complete halt to development in order for this to happen. I am not against doing what you suggest, I just want to make sure we do it in the most efficient way possible. Would be good to hear what others in the core development have to say, hopefully Justin and Diva and Melanie, Misterblue, BlueWall, you guys can chime in here as well, as I am only one person here and for the record just voicing my own concerns, I am far from the final say on any of this stuff.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 8:33 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <douglas.maxwell3.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
>>>>>>> Folks, before we can make any meaningful progress in performance enhancements to the open simulator we have to be able to rely on the simulator statistics. Currently they are (purposefully) misreported to make the simulator look like it is performing better than it really is. This is not acceptable if we are to dig in and begin to assist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>>>>>>> Science and Technology Manager
>>>>>>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>>>>>>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>>>>>>> Human Research & Engineering Directorate
>>>>>>> Simulation & Training Technology Center
>>>>>>> (c) (407) 242-0209
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ________________________________________
>>>>>>> From: opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org [opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org] on behalf of Melanie [melanie at t-data.com]
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 5:56 PM
>>>>>>> To: opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted (UNCLASSIFIED)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is also my opinion that this change isn't fit for core. If and
>>>>>>> when additional stats, like "real fps" and "physics engine fps" can
>>>>>>> be shown in the viewer, then that would be good but the viewer stats
>>>>>>> window should continue to show the fudged figures indefinitely. This
>>>>>>> is because people don't only use scripts but also bots to do
>>>>>>> monitoring and bots receive the same data the viewer receives.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Melanie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 24/04/2015 23:42, Michael Emory Cerquoni wrote:
>>>>>>> > ok so just so I understand we should now see this actually just display
>>>>>>> > 11fps? Personally I think this is a bad idea, alot of people may be using
>>>>>>> > monitoring apps and scripts that look for low fps and restart the region,
>>>>>>> > we would basically be forcing everyone to rewrite a lot of code to
>>>>>>> > accommodate a singular purpose? Not quite sure how this improves the
>>>>>>> > project as a whole.
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 5:40 PM, Michael Emory Cerquoni <
>>>>>>> > nebadon2025 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >> ok I will continue testing this for now, we should try to resolve the
>>>>>>> >> white space issues before it hits core, we can worry about that later
>>>>>>> >> though. I hope others can start testing this patch as well we need to
>>>>>>> >> really make sure this does not break any scripts or monitoring apps before
>>>>>>> >> this changes the core code, so anyone who has the time please do test this
>>>>>>> >> and let us know if you notice anything change or break, thanks!
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 3:38 PM, Maxwell, Douglas CIV USARMY ARL (US) <
>>>>>>> >> douglas.maxwell3.civ at mail.mil> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>>>>>> >>> Caveats: NONE
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> What you saw were just warnings about white spaces. The patch should
>>>>>>> >>> still
>>>>>>> >>> apply and work. We follows the open simulator patch creation guidance
>>>>>>> >>> explicitly, if you guys have updated instructions for how you want this
>>>>>>> >>> done -
>>>>>>> >>> let us know. Otherwise, you can ignore the warnings.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> v/r -douglas
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Douglas Maxwell, MSME
>>>>>>> >>> Science and Technology Manager
>>>>>>> >>> Virtual World Strategic Applications
>>>>>>> >>> U.S. Army Research Lab
>>>>>>> >>> Simulation & Training Technology Center (STTC)
>>>>>>> >>> (c) (407) 242-0209
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> >>> From: opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org
>>>>>>> >>> [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at opensimulator.org] On Behalf Of Michael Emory
>>>>>>> >>> Cerquoni
>>>>>>> >>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 2:38 PM
>>>>>>> >>> To: opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>>>>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] MOSES patch submitted
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> please check the mantis, i had some trouble applying patch for testing,
>>>>>>> >>> thanks
>>>>>>> >>> guys!
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2015 at 1:30 PM, Michael Heilmann <mheilman at ist.ucf.edu>
>>>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Opensim Devs
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Just an FYI, mantis bug #7540 is the first code submission from
>>>>>>> >>> project
>>>>>>> >>> MOSES. Thanks.
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> --
>>>>>>> >>> Michael Heilmann
>>>>>>> >>> Research Associate
>>>>>>> >>> Institute for Simulation and Training
>>>>>>> >>> University of Central Florida
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> >>> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>>>>>>> >>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>>>>> >>> <blockedhttp://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> --
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
>>>>>>> >>> Caveats: NONE
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> >>> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>>>>>>> >>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >> --
>>>>>>> >> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> > Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>>>>> > Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>>>>>>> > http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Michael Emory Cerquoni
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>>>> Opensim-dev at opensimulator.org
>>>>>> http://opensimulator.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
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