No subject

ve concluded that we have a process that doesn't allow for rapid change unl=
ess it's either
=20
a) really easy=2C and shows immediate value for the percieved audience
or
b) has been labouriously discussed and dismissed=2C taken up again=2C re-ev=
aluated=2C and then been dismissed again=2C just to be suddenly accepted be=
cause some technology had matured enough=2C threshold reputation has been e=
arned or a good tool was found.
What I'm saying is that from what I can see our mindset is 'refactoring' ra=
ther than 'rewriting'. Babysteps rather than big restructuring. Always thin=
ing of the job that should be done in the light of the job that has been do=
ne so far.
=20
Good and Bad=2C it has worked well so far. Best regards=2CStefan AnderssonT=
ribal Media AB Join the 3d web revolution : http://tribalnet.se/=20



Date: Sun=2C 7 Dec 2008 06:41:07 -0600From: james.stallings at gmail.comTo: op=
ensim-dev at lists.berlios.deSubject: Re: [Opensim-dev] future rexviewer merge=
rCommunication is a good thing Toni=2C and you have done a fair enough job =
of it here.Clearly there are some cultural (think national=2C not corporate=
) differences here. You have laid out in bold relief many of the reasons be=
hind the things that have frustrated me about the rexx project.One thing I =
am always harping on with my employer is the notion of managing expectation=
s. Typically I am talking in a sales context=2C but I'll say it here: manag=
ement of expectations is everything! and of course=2C communication is key =
to effective management of expectations.IMNSHO=2C this is the 'big fail' on=
 rexx's part - they were oft invited to drop in and discuss things on IRC o=
r participate in the mailing lists. I dont think anyone really expected the=
m to be there chatting in IRC everytime=2C but they could have been followi=
ng and commenting on key work there and in the lists as well=2C and comment=
ing about things that may have impacted their work=2C whether in a positive=
 or negative way. While it may seem we burn a lot of time in IRC goofing of=
f=2C this is generally users or opensim devs that are finished with dev for=
 a time socializing. Nothing wrong with that=2C we are a community=2C and c=
ommunities interact at many levels. No particular commitment to such trivia=
lities is needful from the genuinely busy - opensim devs are all business w=
hen working hard=2C and dont involve themselves very deeply in the lighter =
side of the community (if at all) at such times. As a result of this mode o=
f working=2C oportunities to avoid duplicated effort were missed=2C and dir=
ections were taken that are not consonant with the general direction of the=
 broader community=2C leaving as much work to get re-integrated post-fork=
=2C as it were=2C as perhaps was done to demonstrate a proof of concept in =
the first place. Additionally=2C such communications as we did have were ty=
pically in response to complaints about the cross platform issues=2C and we=
 were continually reassured the commitment was there=2C in spite of over a =
year of work and still not a single line of rexx code that will run on any =
of the alternate platforms. It simply appears as a result of this that ther=
e is anything but a commitment to our cross-platform ideals. Worse=2C it se=
ems to suggest that rexx's commitments are not to be trusted.Now=2C as I am=
 an equal opportunity offender=2C it is time for me to level my critical ey=
e on the opensim team too. You see=2C they have contributed to this mess in=
 a subtle way=2C through a slavish adherence to an old toolchain: SVN *simp=
ly does not do as good a job of supporting collaboration as modern tools li=
ke Hg and GIT*. Hg is probably to be preferred over GIT as I believe Hg wor=
ks cross-platform - but the key point is=2C these more modern repository ma=
nagement toolchains would have offered rexx the flexibility to both do 'cle=
an room' work outside and parallel to the broader community=2C and facilita=
ted a much smoother integration of their clean-room work post-fork. Indeed=
=2C these tools facillitate this asynch workflow so thoroughly that the ter=
m 'fork' really loses most of it's meaning.Enough of hindsight. Time to mov=
e forward=2C with lessons learned. Ryan seems very commited personally to c=
orrecting such of these misteps as are perhaps of chief concern=3B I dont w=
ant to be offensive and suggest he isnt sincere=2C because at this juncture=
 that is all I would be doing is offending=2C and that is honestly not my g=
oal.It is clear from the 38 messages plus in this and related side threads =
that rexx is getting the message about communication - and I will say it ag=
ain just to reenforce the notion: to be a part of the community=2C one must=
 communicate with one's peers.I *wish* I could say that OpenSim's core dev =
team is getting the message about the toolchains - this is something that h=
obbles many innovators. Some have quietly adopted these newer toolchains fo=
r themselves=2C but much of the benefits of this are lost because core stil=
l sits in an SVN repo (yes=2C I am aware that Hg and GIT can work with SVN =
repos=2C but to do things this way rather dilutes their strengths).Oh well=
=2C one thing about us human beings is=2C we learn=2C grow=2C adapt. I dont=
 think anyone in this community of ours is less than intelligent (or less t=
han human for that matter =3B) and I hold out hope that the OpenSim team wi=
ll see how remaining bound to SVN is holding us back.
Coming to this point in this discussion I am hopefull and optimistic that g=
ood things are going to come out of this=2C in spite of the pain. C'mon=2C =
Ryan=2C I cant *wait* another year to see this stuff =3B)CheersJamesOn Sun=
=2C Dec 7=2C 2008 at 2:03 AM=2C Melanie <melanie at t-data.com> wrote:
Hello=2C
Toni Alatalo wrote:> yep like i mentioned in the previous post they are ort=
hogonal and> should be separate. was thinking of that earlier this week but=
 didn't> have time to bring up with the Rex people yet.That sounds good.Mel=
anie


_______________________________________________Opensim-dev mailing listOpen=
sim-dev at lists.berlios.dehttps://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-d=
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 night obscures themhttp://osgrid.orghttp://del.icio.us/SPQRhttp://twitter.=
com/jstallings2http://www.linkedin.com/pub/5/770/a49=

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