[Opensim-dev] llDetectedType and NPC's

Sun Jul 8 18:26:02 UTC 2012

In general it's not a good idea to extend any "ll" function beyond the
equivalent SL definition as there is no guarantee that LL may add any new
functionality that may conflict in the future. If this were to happen it
would be difficult to resolve the conflicts as there would be scripts in
use that depend on the conflicting definitions. Also some scripters don't
always use symbolic constants (a terrible practice but it does happen) so
it's not just a matter of changing a conflicting value for  a constant and
recompiling. If your solution is dependent on deviating from  the SL
definition for any "ll" API call, it may be easier for all involved in the
future if you can redesign it such as to avoid future incompatibilities.

On Sun, Jul 8, 2012 at 3:14 AM, Argus <argus at archimuh.de> wrote:

> Hi.
>
>  I have a problem with the way that NPCs might be implemented in
> llDetectedType. A patch can be found in Mantis 6066.
>
>  In the events touch, collision and sensor one can use the function
> llDetectedType which return some basic infos on what type of
> object/agent... has been detected by the event. To complete this function,
> we still need to add NPCs as type. Sofar, so good...
>
>  NPC do however also have the possebility to be created using
> OS_NPC_SENCE_AS_AGENT. This was implemented sothat NPCs would work with
> sensor events ( without changing the lsl script). At that time NPCs were
> not implemented to llDetectedType which one could have easely used to
> change the lsl script to work with NPCs and/OR agents instead of
> implementing OS_NPC_SENCE_AS_AGENT. The result is, that using
> OS_NPC_SENCE_AS_AGENT would return an agent when using llDetected AND that
> there is NO way to know if the event was triggered by an agent or NPC
> without forcing the users to enable osIsNPC for everybody,  and I do realy
> mean everybody. For me and some other projects I know of, this will have
> fatal sideeffects.
>
>
>
>   Let look at our 3 avatar type, normal agent, liblibomv bot and NPC's and
> how these can be used for identification.
>
> Situation 1) A closed grid with hypergrid disabled.
>
> - Normal agent = registered at grid, unique uuid + name within grid,
> controled by human
> - Bots = basicaly same as agent, registered at grid,  with unique uuid +
> name within grid, but remotly controled by software
> - NPC = NOT registered, unique uuid within grid, ANY fictional OR existing
> name possible and like bots remotly controled.
>
> If llDetectedType return agent for NPCs using OS_NPC_SENSE_AGENT we only
> could detect the NPC using llRequestAgentData to see if we get a posetive
> respone via DATA_NAME (unless the region itself detects the online NPC as
> agent and returns the NPC data, havnt tested that yet.) In any case, the
> uuid remains unique and can always be used to identify a single
> agent/npc/bot
>
> Situation 2) Multigrid system with hypergrid enabled.
>
> - Normal agent = registered at grid, unique uuid + name within grid,
> controled by human, surname changes with hypergrid, name supplies griddata
> on hypergrid travels
> - Bots = basicaly same as agent, registered at grid,  with unique uuid +
> name within grid, but remotly controled by software, surname changes with
> hypergrid, name supplies griddata on hypergrid travels
> - NPC = NOT registered, unique uuid within grid, ANY fictional OR existing
> name possible and like bots remotly controled.
>
>  The uuid - name relation is still unique WITHIN a grid, but the same
> uuid-name relationship can be used in multiple grids by DIFFRENT users.
> However when hypergrid traveling the name changes and one can extract the
> agents origin grid sothat one recieves a unique uuid+name+grid
> relationship. In a multigrid system were llDetectedType return agent for
> NPCs using OS_NPC_SENSE_AGENT there is NO method using plain lsl to get the
> unique uuid+name+grid relationship,  llRequestAgentData is not available in
> all grids from the hypergrid visitor. The names of NPCs are NOT unique
> within a grid AND the uuid could already exist in another grid for an
> agent. The uuid alone CAN'T be used to identify a single agent/bot/npc in a
> multi grid system which is hypergrid enabled.
>
>  Short summary: In a mutligrid system with hypergrid each agent/bot has a
> unique uuid - name - grid relationship were 2 elements are needed for
> identification, in a single grid without hypergrid the uuid is enough to
> identify each agent/bot/npc. In a multigrid system NPC have to be
> identified as NPC sothat one can identify the NPC using uuid + grid.
>
>
>
> As mentioned there is no plain lsl method for identification in a multiple
> grid system with hypergrid if llDetectedType returns an Agent for NPCs
> using OS_NPC_SENSE_AGENT. In Opensim we do have OSSL function which could
> be used to help to distinguish between a registered agent and a NPC, eg.
> osIsNPC. The problem is however, that a multigrid system would have to have
> multiple scripts available for all sorts of ossl combinations.
>
> a) No NPCs allowed for anyone - script does not need any NPCs and all
> event can only be triggered by agents.
> b) NPCs allowed  for 1 or more users, osIsNPC not enabled - Our script
> CAN'T recognize an NPC, so the service has to be excluded and may not be
> used on that region
> c) NPC allowed for 1 or more users, osIsNPC enabled for those users - Our
> script CAN'T recognize an NPC if the script is owned by someone not enabled
> to use osIsNPC, so the service has to be excluded and may not be used on
> that region.
> d) NPC allowed for 1 or more users, osIsNPC enabled for everyone - Our
> script can now use osIsNPC nowmatter who the owner is, only now we can
> recognize NPCs
>
> So if your offering a multigrid service, were we need 2 elements for
> identification, it is required to have atleast 2 script. 1 script for
> regions were noone can use NPCs and another were osIsNPC is enabled for
> everyone. This means that atleast 2 scripts need to be maintained by the
> scriptor and a huge support team which has to personaly speak to each
> customer to explain what script to use etc etc. Latest after 1 year the
> customer has forgotten everything and changes the NPC settings, which
> messes up the agent identification or the region owner changes something
> without notifying the parcelwoners because he himself only wants to try
> something.
>
>  Now if the script is in a hud, then we never know what region settings
> are configured on the region we visit. So as we dont know anything about
> the settings, our entire uuid+name+grid relation is useless and we have NO
> method atall for identification in a multigrid system with hypergrid
> enabled. All ossl that could be used for NPC detection must be considered
> not avialble while NPC can be used by others.
>
> One could create extra modules to help us, but latest if a closed grid is
> involved we are not able to run our additional module. So thats also not an
> option.
>
>
> Résumé: The only method that would help in a multigrid system is, if
> llDetectedType ALWAYS returns NPC nomatter what settings is used and AGENT
> for any agent/bot. Enabling OS_NPC_SENSE_AGENT to alow llDetectedType to
> return agent makes all 3rd party systems in a multigrid hypergrid enabled
> enviroment virtualy impossible to handle.
>
>
> It was thus also my intention to get this issue solved prior to
> implementation of osNPCTouch, but for that it is to late now anyway :(.
>
> Michelle Argus
>
>
>
>
>
>
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