[Opensim-dev] The case for greater than 1024x1024 pixel textures.

Mon Nov 7 15:50:37 UTC 2011

On 11/07/2011 09:02 AM, David Kaplan wrote:
> I whole-heartedly support this proposal in whatever the solution may 
> be - regardless if it's an issue with the viewers or the server. I 
> don't see that have larger textures will create appreciably 
> significant performance issues because, much like web designers, 
> people who are competent in building on OS are aware of bandwidth and 
> optimization concerns when it comes file size. If they aren't, 
> awareness will have be raised on this issue but I don't think a lack 
> of awareness should impede creativity. OS has a lot of competing 
> products out there (e.g., Unity, etc) and they all manage to do the 
> job well while also allowing for robust textured graphics. I 
> understand software like Unity is implemented differently but there is 
> little reason why this issue should different.
There isn't really a proposal here, IMO.  As Nebadon said, its the 
client that decides what the maximum resolution is.   So you could hack 
an OpenSIM specific client to support larger sizes.  But which client to 
use is a user centric issue (unless you've constrained it for your 
grid).  And if you do hack a client and only allow connects from that 
client then you can of course use larger textures but at the expense of 
limiting access to your grid.  There's no "fix" required for OpenSIM here.

Mike

>
> My two cent.
>
> On 11/7/2011 12:06 AM, Nebadon Izumi wrote:
>> Lani
>>
>> This is a viewer issue and not really an OpenSimulator issue per say, 
>> it would be better taken up with the viewer devs, there are really no 
>> limitations on the server side for that limit the size of any 
>> texture, in fact the viewer also has no problem displaying larger 
>> textures, i have several 2048x2048 texture in SL, i believe they were 
>> uploaded with a special LibOMV client back in the day before LL 
>> closed some holes.  Technically the only place that limits the size 
>> of the texture is when the viewer converts the image to a jp2 image 
>> before it sends it to OpenSimulator, if this can be modified then we 
>> could upload larger textures, though there may be some other good 
>> reasons we would not allow this, such as performance and such, the 
>> files could be quite large, and having to download lots of these 
>> large textures could really cripple things, we would need to do some 
>> tests to be sure, there may also be other difficulties involved for 
>> TPVs with the Terms of Service of secondlife and making such 
>> modifications to the viewers, this really needs to be taken up with 
>> the Viewer Developers to see what they think.
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 9:53 PM, Amy Smith <amy88smith at yahoo.com 
>> <mailto:amy88smith at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     This is part of an effort to increase the awareness in
>>     the developer community of a longstanding need among
>>     OpenSim content creators and designers of simulator
>>     environments, for higher resolution pixel textures
>>     (images greater than current 1024x1024 pixels)
>>     to be used in stand-alone and/or grid operation of
>>     sim regions using OpenSimulator.
>>
>>     We are cartoons...
>>     The present limit of 1024x1024 pixels contributes
>>     to a "cartoon-like" or sub-optimum look and feel to
>>     OpenSimulator. If we are to make progress in 21st century
>>     3D graphics, higher resolution imagery is needed.
>>
>>     Is it in only in the Viewer?
>>     Some devs point to the viewer clients being coded to limit
>>     the image size at upload. Since OpenSimulator project has
>>     recently changed license and participation method, to provide
>>     increased interaction between viewer developers and simulator
>>     developers, perhaps there is a renewed possibility to solve
>>     this problem in the near future. Some TPV viewers have provided
>>     compatibility switches in the Grid Manager section for
>>     use with OpenSimulator.
>>
>>     Is there a SIMULATOR or server-side solution?
>>     If the only limits are in the viewer UPLOAD, then perhaps
>>     a method of image insertion at the database level or
>>     in the simulator console could be provided for higher
>>     resolution textures.
>>
>>     What should the limit be?It is estimated that increasing the
>>     limit to
>>     at least 4096 x 4096 pixels would suffice for
>>     most applications. But, for future expansion,
>>     it should be up to the designer, the sim operator, or
>>     the grid operator to set such limits (if any).
>>
>>     The areas of design that suffer the most from
>>     current texture size limits (1024x1024 pixels) are:
>>
>>     1. AVATARS: Avatar skin and system clothing. (Currently: very
>>     blurry! )
>>     2. HUGE PRIMS: Large prim objects, such as buildings,
>>     environment/ space/ sky/ backdrops/ backgrounds, etc.
>>     3. SCULPTY: Visible texture applied to surface of sculpted objects.
>>     4. MESH: Visible texture applied to surface of mesh objects.
>>     5. LAND: Teraform, land/ground RAWs, textures, and data maps.
>>
>>     Reproduction of the current situation:
>>     1. Upload a 4096x4096 image for use with avatar upper body UV
>>     wrapped texture for system avatar.
>>     2. Observe after upload, that the image has been converted by
>>     down-sampling and poorly compressing to a resulting 1024x1024
>>     texture.
>>     3. Apply the texture to the upper body of the system avatar in
>>     the opensimulator region.
>>     4. Look at the avatar in the opensimulator region, and observe
>>     that the texture is fuzzy.
>>     5. Compare the difference in sharpness of the original design
>>     image to the fuzziness of the inworld texture.
>>
>>     Respectfully,
>>     Amy Smith
>>     aka. Lani Global
>>     _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni - Nebadon Izumi @ http://osgrid.org
>>
>>
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