[Opensim-dev] The Overte Foundation for OpenSimulator (Justin Clark-Casey)

Michael Cerquoni nebadon2025 at gmail.com
Sun Jul 3 10:32:17 UTC 2011 

whoops accidentally sent that last email before i was ready too..  But again
If i felt that things were heading towards complete commercialization and
closed source I would not be involving myself on the board or endorsing
these kind of decisions.  I do think it is good though that people say what
they are thinking and feeling about how things are progressing so that we
can all talk about it, we are trying to keep this process open as much as
possible to everyone so you can rest assured there is no intention of
privatizing and locking up the OpenSimulator code.  Really our hope was to
open it up more and bring more people into the fold in a safe manner but it
is good to ask questions, if you have more questions keep them coming and we
will try to answer everything we can and hopefully put peoples mind at
east.  Thanks everyone.

On Sun, Jul 3, 2011 at 3:24 AM, Michael Cerquoni <nebadon2025 at gmail.com>wrote:

> I am also not a lawyer, but I can tell you that I would not be involved if
> I felt this was the direction that things are heading.
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Melanie <melanie at t-data.com> wrote:
>
>> IANAL either, but as the software is currently BSD licensed, anyone
>> can take it, spin a release off it and sell it. So I would assume
>> that core could go and make it closed and commercial, which means
>> the last release would remain BSD and all future development could
>> be closed. That is possible even today, independent of any
>> contributor's agreements.
>>
>> However, core has been working under the 6 month clause and other
>> constraints to keep OpenSim BSD for a long time, so I don't see any
>> reason to believe this would ever come to pass, one way or the
>> other. We have no interest in making OpenSim core closed source.
>>
>> Melanie
>>
>> On 02/07/2011 08:22, Snowcrash Short wrote:
>> > Hi
>> >
>> > Since IANAL, I have a couple of questions.
>> >
>> > Usually when I encounter these kinds of licenses, they also imply that
>> the
>> > foundation obtains a right to re-license the copyrighIted material,
>> since
>> > the foundation has a separate copyright and thus may produce a copy
>> under a
>> > separate license. Will this also be the case for Overte?
>> >
>> > What about the submissions made prior to license policy, will Overte
>> > retroactively try to get the contributors to sign such a license?
>> >
>> > My goal here is to ensure that OpenSim will remain free.
>> >
>> > /Snowcrash
>> >
>> > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Andrew Hughes <
>> > andrew.hughes at designingdigitally.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hi Guys,
>> >>
>> >> We would like to donate funds also to the Opensim Dev project. Please
>> let
>> >> me know when this is possible. Thanks!
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>    Have a creative day,
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Andrew Hughes
>> >> President
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> - A Second Life ® Gold Solution Provider
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>> >
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>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Justin Clark-Casey <
>> >> jjustincc at googlemail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Thanks very much for the offer, Justin.  If it's okay, I'll let you
>> know
>> >>> when we have a donation channel established. This might take a little
>> while
>> >>> since we're in the holiday season at the moment and various people are
>> away.
>> >>>
>> >>> -- Justin
>> >>>
>> >>> On 30/06/11 16:25, Justin Lyon wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Justin,
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Simudyne would be willing to donate some funds to help set-up the
>> Overte
>> >>>> Foundation. What would you need?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Best,
>> >>>> Justin
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 30 Jun 2011, at 13:00, opensim-dev-request at lists.**berlios.de<
>> opensim-dev-request at lists.berlios.de>wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>  Send Opensim-dev mailing list submissions to
>> >>>>>        opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>> >>>>>        https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>> >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>> >>>>>        opensim-dev-request at lists.**berlios.de<
>> opensim-dev-request at lists.berlios.de>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>> >>>>>        opensim-dev-owner at lists.**berlios.de<
>> opensim-dev-owner at lists.berlios.de>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> >>>>> than "Re: Contents of Opensim-dev digest..."
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Today's Topics:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>   1. Re: Built libbullet shared object libraries for Linux but
>> >>>>>      this isn't what you wanted! (Justin Clark-Casey)
>> >>>>>   2. The Overte Foundation for OpenSimulator (Justin Clark-Casey)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
>> >>>>> ----------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Message: 1
>> >>>>> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 00:51:27 +0100
>> >>>>> From: Justin Clark-Casey<jjustincc@**googlemail.com<
>> jjustincc at googlemail.com>
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Built libbullet shared object libraries
>> for
>> >>>>>        Linux but this isn't what you wanted!
>> >>>>> Message-ID:<4E0BBA7F.7070206@**googlemail.com<
>> 4E0BBA7F.7070206 at googlemail.com>
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 27/06/11 16:52, Adams, Robert wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> Building Bullet itself is a start. Thanks Justin.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> The makefile should be fairly straight forward as there are just
>> the
>> >>>>>> two cpp files and one .h file with the only dependencies being on
>> the std
>> >>>>>> library and Bullet itself. As you now know, Bullet used CMAKE for
>> its
>> >>>>>> build/configuration tool and I don't know if there is a way to link
>> a
>> >>>>>> BulletSim build into it (put the Bullet directory under BulletSim
>> and do a
>> >>>>>> CMAKE which builds both together).
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I'm setting up a Linux build environment so I should be able to
>> help
>> >>>>>> anyone working on this by next weekend. I'm doing some stress
>> testing this
>> >>>>>> week and then I will look into linksets again -- I want to get
>> vehicles
>> >>>>>> working.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I put in a scratch Makefile and fixed one definition issue in
>> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp.  However, on make this still brings up the
>> >>>>> errors
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:38:14: error: ?gDeactivationTime? was declared
>> ?extern?
>> >>>>> and later ?static?
>> >>>>> BulletDynamics/Dynamics/**btRigidBody.h:29:17: error: previous
>> >>>>> declaration of ?gDeactivationTime?
>> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp: In member function ?int
>> BulletSim::PhysicsStep(**btScalar,
>> >>>>> int, btScalar, int*, EntityProperties***, int*,
>> >>>>> unsigned int**)?:
>> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:107:79: error: cast from ?void*? to ?unsigned int?
>> loses
>> >>>>> precision
>> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:108:79: error: cast from ?void*? to ?unsigned int?
>> loses
>> >>>>> precision
>> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp: In member function ?btCollisionShape*
>> >>>>> BulletSim::CreateShape(**ShapeData*)?:
>> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:405:61: error: no matching function for call to
>> >>>>> ?BulletSim::**AdjustScaleForCollisionMargin(**btCollisionShape*&,
>> >>>>> btVector3)?
>> >>>>> BulletSim.h:469:7: note: candidate is: void BulletSim::**
>> >>>>> AdjustScaleForCollisionMargin(**btCollisionShape*, btVector3&)
>> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:426:62: error: no matching function for call to
>> >>>>> ?BulletSim::**AdjustScaleForCollisionMargin(**btCollisionShape*&,
>> >>>>> btVector3)?
>> >>>>> BulletSim.h:469:7: note: candidate is: void BulletSim::**
>> >>>>> AdjustScaleForCollisionMargin(**btCollisionShape*, btVector3&)
>> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:432:61: error: no matching function for call to
>> >>>>> ?BulletSim::**AdjustScaleForCollisionMargin(**btCollisionShape*&,
>> >>>>> btVector3)?
>> >>>>> BulletSim.h:469:7: note: candidate is: void BulletSim::**
>> >>>>> AdjustScaleForCollisionMargin(**btCollisionShape*, btVector3&)
>> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp: In member function ?SweepHit
>> BulletSim::ConvexSweepTest(
>> >>>>> **unsigned int, btVector3&, btVector3&, btScalar)?:
>> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:1166:95: error: cast from ?void*? to ?unsigned int?
>> loses
>> >>>>> precision
>> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp: In member function ?RaycastHit
>> >>>>> BulletSim::RayTest(unsigned int, btVector3&, btVector3&)?:
>> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:1209:70: error: cast from ?void*? to ?unsigned int?
>> loses
>> >>>>> precision
>> >>>>> make: *** [BulletSim.o] Error 1
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> It's a long time since I did any significant c/cpp (and then it
>> wasn't
>> >>>>> on Linux) so I'm not sure why this is happening.
>> >>>>>  Maybe it's gcc specific.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> I was able to pull opensim-libs anonymously last week (
>> >>>>>> http://opensimulator.org/svn/**opensim-libs<
>> http://opensimulator.org/svn/opensim-libs>).
>> >>>>>> Has it broken since then?
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Thanks Robert - I was trying the wrong url.  I put the information
>> into
>> >>>>> the wiki.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> -- ra
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>> >>>>>> From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.**berlios.de<
>> opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de>[mailto:
>> >>>>>> opensim-dev-bounces@**lists.berlios.de<
>> opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de>]
>> >>>>>> On Behalf Of Justin Clark-Casey
>> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 4:48 PM
>> >>>>>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> >>>>>> Subject: [Opensim-dev] Built libbullet shared object libraries for
>> >>>>>> Linux but this isn't what you wanted!
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Hi Robert.  I briefly putzed around with building shared object
>> Bullet
>> >>>>>> 2.78 under Linux tonight and popped the results
>> >>>>>> in as commit 23bf773 on the bulletsim branch.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> However, I just realised that you weren't asking for the bullet
>> >>>>>> libraries to be built.  What you were really asking for
>> >>>>>> in http://lists.berlios.de/**pipermail/opensim-dev/2011-**
>> >>>>>> June/010271.html<
>> http://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/opensim-dev/2011-June/010271.html>were
>> Linux/OSX makefiles to build your
>> >>>>>> BulletSim.dll interfacing library in the opensim-libs svn repo (for
>> >>>>>> which anonymous access is unfortunately not
>> >>>>>> currently working - this need to be fixed).
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> That doesn't look too difficult but it's a little more involved for
>> me
>> >>>>>> since it's a long time since I wrote a Makefile.
>> >>>>>>   I don't know when I might get a slice of time to do that, so I
>> think
>> >>>>>> help from anybody else would still be very much
>> >>>>>> appreciated.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
>> >>>>> http://justincc.org/blog
>> >>>>> http://twitter.com/justincc
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ------------------------------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Message: 2
>> >>>>> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 02:21:51 +0100
>> >>>>> From: Justin Clark-Casey<jjustincc@**googlemail.com<
>> jjustincc at googlemail.com>
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> To: Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de**, opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> >>>>> Subject: [Opensim-dev] The Overte Foundation for OpenSimulator
>> >>>>> Message-ID:<4E0BCFAF.5030908@**googlemail.com<
>> 4E0BCFAF.5030908 at googlemail.com>
>> >>>>> >
>> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Dear all,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> As I'm sure everybody on these lists is aware, OpenSimulator
>> currently
>> >>>>> has some restrictions on who can contribute code
>> >>>>> to the project (
>> http://opensimulator.org/**wiki/Contributions_Policy<
>> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Contributions_Policy>
>> >>>>> ).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The most controversial of these is the one that prevents
>> contributions
>> >>>>> from people who have studied the Linden Lab
>> >>>>> viewer within the past 6 months.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> This policy came about because the early core developers wanted to
>> be
>> >>>>> very cautious when dealing with a project that was
>> >>>>> intimately intertwined with OpenSimulator through a common virtual
>> world
>> >>>>> protocol and concept, but which was licensed
>> >>>>> under the copyleft GPL license rather than OpenSimulator's BSD
>> license.
>> >>>>>  It was also inspired by bad, though unrelated,
>> >>>>> early experiences of unwanted inclusion of GPL code within
>> >>>>> OpenSimulator.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> However, this rule increasingly restricts progress and innovation.
>>  To
>> >>>>> state the obvious, it effectively stops Linden
>> >>>>> Lab viewer and third party viewer developers from contributing to
>> >>>>> OpenSimulator and it stops OpenSimulator developers
>> >>>>> from contributing code to those viewers.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> We do want to do something about this.  In very broad terms, there
>> are
>> >>>>> two choices of action.  Either we simply drop the
>> >>>>> 6 month restriction or we establish a Contributor's License
>> Agreement
>> >>>>> (CLA) to explicitly clarify that a developer has
>> >>>>> the necessary rights to contribute the code that they're giving.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Simply dropping the restriction is tempting.  However, the
>> conditions
>> >>>>> under which it was established have not changed -
>> >>>>> the core of the Linden Lab viewer and derivatives is still under the
>> >>>>> copyleft LGPL license.  Some people think that in
>> >>>>> general such restrictions are entirely unnecessary but others think
>> that
>> >>>>> it's a reasonable precaution in the absence of
>> >>>>> a CLA.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> So the other alternative is to have that CLA.  This is the route
>> that
>> >>>>> we've started going down.  The proposal is to have
>> >>>>> a CLA by which a contributor explicitly grants a copyright license
>> over
>> >>>>> their contributions.  Each contributor will
>> >>>>> continue to own their own code (i.e. there is no transfer of
>> copyright).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Again, there is considerable debate over CLAs, with some people
>> seeing
>> >>>>> them as essential and others thinking that they
>> >>>>> are entirely unnecessary.  However, many open-source projects have
>> CLAs
>> >>>>> (Apache, Django, Python, the Linden Lab viewer)
>> >>>>> so we would not be in bad company.  Having to submit a CLA might
>> also
>> >>>>> reduce casual 'drive-by' patches, though we would
>> >>>>> make CLA submitting as easy as possible - by accepting them
>> >>>>> electronically, for instance.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> In order to grant a copyright license there needs to be a receiving
>> >>>>> entity.  To this end, we are in the process of
>> >>>>> setting up an organisation known as the Overte Foundation.  The
>> Overte
>> >>>>> Foundation will receive the copyright licenses
>> >>>>> and become the official distributor of OpenSimulator rather than
>> >>>>> individual core developers.  This will put it in a good
>> >>>>> position to deal with code origin or other issues, if any should
>> ever
>> >>>>> arise.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Once the CLA is complete, the current contribution restrictions to
>> >>>>> OpenSimulator will be removed.  It will be down to
>> >>>>> each developer (including core developers) to affirm via the CLA
>> that
>> >>>>> they have the necessary rights over the code that
>> >>>>> they are contributing.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> One advantage of going down the foundation route is that it will
>> also be
>> >>>>> able to promote and support OpenSimulator in
>> >>>>> other ways, quite possibly incorporating members of the community
>> other
>> >>>>> than just developers.  The foundation could also
>> >>>>> extend to cover other open-source
>> virtual-environment/virtual-**world
>> >>>>> projects and components.  In the short term, though,
>> >>>>> we will be concentrating on establishing the CLA.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> At some point soon we would be very grateful for donations to the
>> Overte
>> >>>>> Foundation in order to deal with some of the
>> >>>>> costs involved in setting things up and for ongoing support and
>> >>>>> promotion of OpenSimulator.  Setup costs should not be
>> >>>>> too high since Ben Esplin of Pillsbury Law is very kindly donating
>> time
>> >>>>> and expertise (he also helped OSgrid establish
>> >>>>> their organisation).
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> We're actually still in the process of setting up the foundation so
>> >>>>> we'll only be requesting donations once we have a
>> >>>>> bank account for them.  However, we wanted to get this out in the
>> open
>> >>>>> now so that people know what is being proposed
>> >>>>> and so that we can get feedback.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> For a much shorter public statement and FAQ about these topics shorn
>> of
>> >>>>> the historical context, please see
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/**Foundation<
>> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Foundation>
>> >>>>> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/**Foundation_FAQ<
>> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Foundation_FAQ>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I will be acting as the first Overte Foundation president, with Diva
>> as
>> >>>>> treasurer, Melanie as secretary and Nebadon and
>> >>>>> Ben as initial board members.  The foundation itself will not
>> directly
>> >>>>> control OpenSimulator development - this will
>> >>>>> remain with the OpenSimulator team and community as it does now.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Discussion about this is very welcome, whether supporting or
>> critical.
>> >>>>>  I'm logging off now so will likely answer any
>> >>>>> points tomorrow.  Of course, other core developers are very welcome
>> to
>> >>>>> chip in.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Best,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
>> >>>>> http://justincc.org/blog
>> >>>>> http://twitter.com/justincc
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ------------------------------
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________
>> >>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> >>>>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> >>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> End of Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 46, Issue 19
>> >>>>> *********************************************
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> ______________________________**_________________
>> >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> >>>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> >>>> https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
>> >>> http://justincc.org/blog
>> >>> http://twitter.com/justincc
>> >>> ______________________________**_________________
>> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>> >>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> >>> https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<
>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
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>> >> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> _______________________________________________
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>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni - Nebadon Izumi @ http://osgrid.org
>



-- 
Michael Emory Cerquoni - Nebadon Izumi @ http://osgrid.org
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