[Opensim-dev] The Overte Foundation for OpenSimulator (Justin Clark-Casey)

Michael Cerquoni nebadon2025 at gmail.com
Sun Jul 3 10:24:57 UTC 2011 

I am also not a lawyer, but I can tell you that I would not be involved if I
felt this was the direction that things are heading.

On Sat, Jul 2, 2011 at 6:12 AM, Melanie <melanie at t-data.com> wrote:

> IANAL either, but as the software is currently BSD licensed, anyone
> can take it, spin a release off it and sell it. So I would assume
> that core could go and make it closed and commercial, which means
> the last release would remain BSD and all future development could
> be closed. That is possible even today, independent of any
> contributor's agreements.
>
> However, core has been working under the 6 month clause and other
> constraints to keep OpenSim BSD for a long time, so I don't see any
> reason to believe this would ever come to pass, one way or the
> other. We have no interest in making OpenSim core closed source.
>
> Melanie
>
> On 02/07/2011 08:22, Snowcrash Short wrote:
> > Hi
> >
> > Since IANAL, I have a couple of questions.
> >
> > Usually when I encounter these kinds of licenses, they also imply that
> the
> > foundation obtains a right to re-license the copyrighIted material, since
> > the foundation has a separate copyright and thus may produce a copy under
> a
> > separate license. Will this also be the case for Overte?
> >
> > What about the submissions made prior to license policy, will Overte
> > retroactively try to get the contributors to sign such a license?
> >
> > My goal here is to ensure that OpenSim will remain free.
> >
> > /Snowcrash
> >
> > On Fri, Jul 1, 2011 at 12:32 AM, Andrew Hughes <
> > andrew.hughes at designingdigitally.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Guys,
> >>
> >> We would like to donate funds also to the Opensim Dev project. Please
> let
> >> me know when this is possible. Thanks!
> >>
> >>
> >>    Have a creative day,
> >>
> >>
> >> Andrew Hughes
> >> President
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> - A Second Life ® Gold Solution Provider
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> >
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> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 6:26 PM, Justin Clark-Casey <
> >> jjustincc at googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks very much for the offer, Justin.  If it's okay, I'll let you
> know
> >>> when we have a donation channel established. This might take a little
> while
> >>> since we're in the holiday season at the moment and various people are
> away.
> >>>
> >>> -- Justin
> >>>
> >>> On 30/06/11 16:25, Justin Lyon wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Justin,
> >>>>
> >>>> Simudyne would be willing to donate some funds to help set-up the
> Overte
> >>>> Foundation. What would you need?
> >>>>
> >>>> Best,
> >>>> Justin
> >>>>
> >>>> On 30 Jun 2011, at 13:00, opensim-dev-request at lists.**berlios.de<
> opensim-dev-request at lists.berlios.de>wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>  Send Opensim-dev mailing list submissions to
> >>>>>        opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>>>>
> >>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>>>>        https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
> >>>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>>>>        opensim-dev-request at lists.**berlios.de<
> opensim-dev-request at lists.berlios.de>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>>>>        opensim-dev-owner at lists.**berlios.de<
> opensim-dev-owner at lists.berlios.de>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >>>>> than "Re: Contents of Opensim-dev digest..."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Today's Topics:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>   1. Re: Built libbullet shared object libraries for Linux but
> >>>>>      this isn't what you wanted! (Justin Clark-Casey)
> >>>>>   2. The Overte Foundation for OpenSimulator (Justin Clark-Casey)
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> >>>>> ----------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Message: 1
> >>>>> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 00:51:27 +0100
> >>>>> From: Justin Clark-Casey<jjustincc@**googlemail.com<
> jjustincc at googlemail.com>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Built libbullet shared object libraries
> for
> >>>>>        Linux but this isn't what you wanted!
> >>>>> Message-ID:<4E0BBA7F.7070206@**googlemail.com<
> 4E0BBA7F.7070206 at googlemail.com>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On 27/06/11 16:52, Adams, Robert wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Building Bullet itself is a start. Thanks Justin.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The makefile should be fairly straight forward as there are just the
> >>>>>> two cpp files and one .h file with the only dependencies being on
> the std
> >>>>>> library and Bullet itself. As you now know, Bullet used CMAKE for
> its
> >>>>>> build/configuration tool and I don't know if there is a way to link
> a
> >>>>>> BulletSim build into it (put the Bullet directory under BulletSim
> and do a
> >>>>>> CMAKE which builds both together).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I'm setting up a Linux build environment so I should be able to help
> >>>>>> anyone working on this by next weekend. I'm doing some stress
> testing this
> >>>>>> week and then I will look into linksets again -- I want to get
> vehicles
> >>>>>> working.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I put in a scratch Makefile and fixed one definition issue in
> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp.  However, on make this still brings up the
> >>>>> errors
> >>>>>
> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:38:14: error: ?gDeactivationTime? was declared ?extern?
> >>>>> and later ?static?
> >>>>> BulletDynamics/Dynamics/**btRigidBody.h:29:17: error: previous
> >>>>> declaration of ?gDeactivationTime?
> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp: In member function ?int
> BulletSim::PhysicsStep(**btScalar,
> >>>>> int, btScalar, int*, EntityProperties***, int*,
> >>>>> unsigned int**)?:
> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:107:79: error: cast from ?void*? to ?unsigned int?
> loses
> >>>>> precision
> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:108:79: error: cast from ?void*? to ?unsigned int?
> loses
> >>>>> precision
> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp: In member function ?btCollisionShape*
> >>>>> BulletSim::CreateShape(**ShapeData*)?:
> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:405:61: error: no matching function for call to
> >>>>> ?BulletSim::**AdjustScaleForCollisionMargin(**btCollisionShape*&,
> >>>>> btVector3)?
> >>>>> BulletSim.h:469:7: note: candidate is: void BulletSim::**
> >>>>> AdjustScaleForCollisionMargin(**btCollisionShape*, btVector3&)
> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:426:62: error: no matching function for call to
> >>>>> ?BulletSim::**AdjustScaleForCollisionMargin(**btCollisionShape*&,
> >>>>> btVector3)?
> >>>>> BulletSim.h:469:7: note: candidate is: void BulletSim::**
> >>>>> AdjustScaleForCollisionMargin(**btCollisionShape*, btVector3&)
> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:432:61: error: no matching function for call to
> >>>>> ?BulletSim::**AdjustScaleForCollisionMargin(**btCollisionShape*&,
> >>>>> btVector3)?
> >>>>> BulletSim.h:469:7: note: candidate is: void BulletSim::**
> >>>>> AdjustScaleForCollisionMargin(**btCollisionShape*, btVector3&)
> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp: In member function ?SweepHit
> BulletSim::ConvexSweepTest(
> >>>>> **unsigned int, btVector3&, btVector3&, btScalar)?:
> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:1166:95: error: cast from ?void*? to ?unsigned int?
> loses
> >>>>> precision
> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp: In member function ?RaycastHit
> >>>>> BulletSim::RayTest(unsigned int, btVector3&, btVector3&)?:
> >>>>> BulletSim.cpp:1209:70: error: cast from ?void*? to ?unsigned int?
> loses
> >>>>> precision
> >>>>> make: *** [BulletSim.o] Error 1
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It's a long time since I did any significant c/cpp (and then it
> wasn't
> >>>>> on Linux) so I'm not sure why this is happening.
> >>>>>  Maybe it's gcc specific.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> I was able to pull opensim-libs anonymously last week (
> >>>>>> http://opensimulator.org/svn/**opensim-libs<
> http://opensimulator.org/svn/opensim-libs>).
> >>>>>> Has it broken since then?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks Robert - I was trying the wrong url.  I put the information
> into
> >>>>> the wiki.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> -- ra
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>> From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.**berlios.de<
> opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de>[mailto:
> >>>>>> opensim-dev-bounces@**lists.berlios.de<
> opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de>]
> >>>>>> On Behalf Of Justin Clark-Casey
> >>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2011 4:48 PM
> >>>>>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>>>>> Subject: [Opensim-dev] Built libbullet shared object libraries for
> >>>>>> Linux but this isn't what you wanted!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Hi Robert.  I briefly putzed around with building shared object
> Bullet
> >>>>>> 2.78 under Linux tonight and popped the results
> >>>>>> in as commit 23bf773 on the bulletsim branch.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> However, I just realised that you weren't asking for the bullet
> >>>>>> libraries to be built.  What you were really asking for
> >>>>>> in http://lists.berlios.de/**pipermail/opensim-dev/2011-**
> >>>>>> June/010271.html<
> http://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/opensim-dev/2011-June/010271.html>were
> Linux/OSX makefiles to build your
> >>>>>> BulletSim.dll interfacing library in the opensim-libs svn repo (for
> >>>>>> which anonymous access is unfortunately not
> >>>>>> currently working - this need to be fixed).
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That doesn't look too difficult but it's a little more involved for
> me
> >>>>>> since it's a long time since I wrote a Makefile.
> >>>>>>   I don't know when I might get a slice of time to do that, so I
> think
> >>>>>> help from anybody else would still be very much
> >>>>>> appreciated.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
> >>>>> http://justincc.org/blog
> >>>>> http://twitter.com/justincc
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Message: 2
> >>>>> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2011 02:21:51 +0100
> >>>>> From: Justin Clark-Casey<jjustincc@**googlemail.com<
> jjustincc at googlemail.com>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> To: Opensim-users at lists.berlios.de**, opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>>>> Subject: [Opensim-dev] The Overte Foundation for OpenSimulator
> >>>>> Message-ID:<4E0BCFAF.5030908@**googlemail.com<
> 4E0BCFAF.5030908 at googlemail.com>
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Dear all,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As I'm sure everybody on these lists is aware, OpenSimulator
> currently
> >>>>> has some restrictions on who can contribute code
> >>>>> to the project (http://opensimulator.org/**wiki/Contributions_Policy
> <http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Contributions_Policy>
> >>>>> ).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The most controversial of these is the one that prevents
> contributions
> >>>>> from people who have studied the Linden Lab
> >>>>> viewer within the past 6 months.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This policy came about because the early core developers wanted to be
> >>>>> very cautious when dealing with a project that was
> >>>>> intimately intertwined with OpenSimulator through a common virtual
> world
> >>>>> protocol and concept, but which was licensed
> >>>>> under the copyleft GPL license rather than OpenSimulator's BSD
> license.
> >>>>>  It was also inspired by bad, though unrelated,
> >>>>> early experiences of unwanted inclusion of GPL code within
> >>>>> OpenSimulator.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> However, this rule increasingly restricts progress and innovation.
>  To
> >>>>> state the obvious, it effectively stops Linden
> >>>>> Lab viewer and third party viewer developers from contributing to
> >>>>> OpenSimulator and it stops OpenSimulator developers
> >>>>> from contributing code to those viewers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We do want to do something about this.  In very broad terms, there
> are
> >>>>> two choices of action.  Either we simply drop the
> >>>>> 6 month restriction or we establish a Contributor's License Agreement
> >>>>> (CLA) to explicitly clarify that a developer has
> >>>>> the necessary rights to contribute the code that they're giving.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Simply dropping the restriction is tempting.  However, the conditions
> >>>>> under which it was established have not changed -
> >>>>> the core of the Linden Lab viewer and derivatives is still under the
> >>>>> copyleft LGPL license.  Some people think that in
> >>>>> general such restrictions are entirely unnecessary but others think
> that
> >>>>> it's a reasonable precaution in the absence of
> >>>>> a CLA.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So the other alternative is to have that CLA.  This is the route that
> >>>>> we've started going down.  The proposal is to have
> >>>>> a CLA by which a contributor explicitly grants a copyright license
> over
> >>>>> their contributions.  Each contributor will
> >>>>> continue to own their own code (i.e. there is no transfer of
> copyright).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Again, there is considerable debate over CLAs, with some people
> seeing
> >>>>> them as essential and others thinking that they
> >>>>> are entirely unnecessary.  However, many open-source projects have
> CLAs
> >>>>> (Apache, Django, Python, the Linden Lab viewer)
> >>>>> so we would not be in bad company.  Having to submit a CLA might also
> >>>>> reduce casual 'drive-by' patches, though we would
> >>>>> make CLA submitting as easy as possible - by accepting them
> >>>>> electronically, for instance.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In order to grant a copyright license there needs to be a receiving
> >>>>> entity.  To this end, we are in the process of
> >>>>> setting up an organisation known as the Overte Foundation.  The
> Overte
> >>>>> Foundation will receive the copyright licenses
> >>>>> and become the official distributor of OpenSimulator rather than
> >>>>> individual core developers.  This will put it in a good
> >>>>> position to deal with code origin or other issues, if any should ever
> >>>>> arise.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Once the CLA is complete, the current contribution restrictions to
> >>>>> OpenSimulator will be removed.  It will be down to
> >>>>> each developer (including core developers) to affirm via the CLA that
> >>>>> they have the necessary rights over the code that
> >>>>> they are contributing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One advantage of going down the foundation route is that it will also
> be
> >>>>> able to promote and support OpenSimulator in
> >>>>> other ways, quite possibly incorporating members of the community
> other
> >>>>> than just developers.  The foundation could also
> >>>>> extend to cover other open-source virtual-environment/virtual-**world
> >>>>> projects and components.  In the short term, though,
> >>>>> we will be concentrating on establishing the CLA.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> At some point soon we would be very grateful for donations to the
> Overte
> >>>>> Foundation in order to deal with some of the
> >>>>> costs involved in setting things up and for ongoing support and
> >>>>> promotion of OpenSimulator.  Setup costs should not be
> >>>>> too high since Ben Esplin of Pillsbury Law is very kindly donating
> time
> >>>>> and expertise (he also helped OSgrid establish
> >>>>> their organisation).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We're actually still in the process of setting up the foundation so
> >>>>> we'll only be requesting donations once we have a
> >>>>> bank account for them.  However, we wanted to get this out in the
> open
> >>>>> now so that people know what is being proposed
> >>>>> and so that we can get feedback.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For a much shorter public statement and FAQ about these topics shorn
> of
> >>>>> the historical context, please see
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/**Foundation<
> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Foundation>
> >>>>> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/**Foundation_FAQ<
> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Foundation_FAQ>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I will be acting as the first Overte Foundation president, with Diva
> as
> >>>>> treasurer, Melanie as secretary and Nebadon and
> >>>>> Ben as initial board members.  The foundation itself will not
> directly
> >>>>> control OpenSimulator development - this will
> >>>>> remain with the OpenSimulator team and community as it does now.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Discussion about this is very welcome, whether supporting or
> critical.
> >>>>>  I'm logging off now so will likely answer any
> >>>>> points tomorrow.  Of course, other core developers are very welcome
> to
> >>>>> chip in.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
> >>>>> http://justincc.org/blog
> >>>>> http://twitter.com/justincc
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >>>>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> End of Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 46, Issue 19
> >>>>> *********************************************
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >>>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>>> https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Justin Clark-Casey (justincc)
> >>> http://justincc.org/blog
> >>> http://twitter.com/justincc
> >>> ______________________________**_________________
> >>> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >>> https://lists.berlios.de/**mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev<
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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>



-- 
Michael Emory Cerquoni - Nebadon Izumi @ http://osgrid.org
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