[Opensim-dev] OpenSim - What's Taking so long

Fri Jul 9 07:42:10 UTC 2010

*> if your paying people to create patches that wont *
*> be accepted into core this could create problems *
*> for the fund raisers in the end.*

I completely agree.  If you're going to beat your drum, and try to conjur up
money, then at least screw your head on straight and try to get a grasp on
what it is that you're trying to accomplish.

You may want to turn OpenSim into a wonderful gaming engine, with some of
the best graphics in the world.  That's great, and I'd love to see it as
well, but what will end up getting accepted into core is a totally different
subject.  Much of your work could just end up being wasted and useless.

There are several different major distributions out there already
(realXtend, SciSim, OSGrid, Diva distribution, etc.).

Sit down, think about what distribution it is that you use the most, and
then figure out what you want fixed or added, and then begin to solicit help
from the dev's, or simply open up a discussion here on the list, and see if
what you are asking to do can even be done.

Then ask for a quote as to how much it would cost to have it done (approx
man hours x hourly rate) or possibly a flat fee for the job, and then go
conjur up your financial support (to cover the costs of that work) and just
make sure before you do something that it's discussed thoroughly in the
threads, so that the core dev's know what it is that you're trying to do,
and whether or not it will even get accepted into core.

Then try to hire someone from core to do the work for you, because that's
your best chance of it getting put into core.  ;-)

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Michael Cerquoni <nebadon2025 at gmail.com>wrote:

> good points Diva, anyone who is going to submit patches to core should work
> closely with the core developers to make sure the work they are doing will
> be accepted into core, this gets back to the just throwing money at the
> problem can create more problems than it solves, if your paying people to
> create patches that wont be accepted into core this could create problems
> for the fund raisers in the end.  Just be sure your very open and
> accountable for the things you say and do and there shouldn't be to many
> problems.
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Diva Canto <diva at metaverseink.com> wrote:
>
>>  That's all great and good. Let's just make sure that we are all in the
>> same page wrt expectations.
>>
>> I've read in your emails references to some undisclosed final goal; it
>> shows in the subject of this thread ("taking so long" to get where?), as
>> well as in expressions such as "how non-programmers can help the code *move
>> along*" -- where to? What this means is that you have a final goal in mind.
>> I don't know what your final goal/vision is, but note that your final
>> goal/vision may not be the same as that of lots of people here, and it's
>> really important that you understand that. This is so that you don't get the
>> wrong impression that by raising money and paying someone to do some things
>> you want done, those things will automatically be a part of the
>> OpenSimulator core distribution. They may or they may not be, depending on
>> many factors. Some things, as useful as they may be, don't belong in the
>> OpenSimulator core distribution; they belong in people's open or closed
>> extensions and in alternative distributions that target specific usage
>> scenarios.
>>
>> So before you go out raising money like those 4 kids in NYC, I strongly
>> suggest you sit down and think what it is that you would like to see done
>> that is not done yet. Then think what's the best mechanism for making those
>> things come to life. (those 4 kids could have used the same advice...)
>>
>> Your emails show a slight expectation drift, which may cause some grief in
>> the future. Besides the standalone simulator, the OpenSimulator project is
>> not meant to produce an out-of-the-box anything. People wanting to develop
>> applications and services on top of OpenSim must invest a lot of extra
>> effort to make those applications and services come to life. If you are
>> waiting for OpenSim to enable an offer to your clients without effort on
>> your part, you are in for a big disappointment.
>>
>> As Karen pointed here, there are many ways that non coders can help the
>> project. Freely distributable content is one area where we are clearly in
>> need of good Samaritans.
>>
>>
>> On 7/8/2010 2:20 PM, Drew Hart wrote:
>>
>> I will contact you offlist Wordfromthe Wise.  And what was said makes
>> sense.  I guess my only concern, and I am serious about doing some serious
>> fundraising, is the use of the name Open Simulator.  I guess if I raised
>> money and laid out my position, that I am an independent third party
>> interested in hiring coders to contribute to OpenSim, that should make using
>> the name okay (people would know I am not officially conected)?  Also, we
>> would need some independent "observer/accountant" to make sure everything is
>> cool and the money spent wisely, but I know several that would volunteer
>> their time to do that (attorneys/accountants).  So if anyone else wants to
>> work on fundraising, etc., contact me at drewehart at gmail.com.  Or if
>> anyone has other ideas on how non-programmers can help the code move along,
>> I am open to anything.  Even if some of the experts want to hold some
>> training sessions so we can learn coding - though I am not sure if that is
>> practicable.  Thanks,
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Michael Cerquoni <nebadon2025 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> One of the problems with OpenSimulator project doing this, is it is not
>>> an established company.  There is no central office or managers for this
>>> project.  That aside if you wanted to try to raise funds to hire programmers
>>> who will submit their code you could certainly do that, you do not need
>>> OpenSimulator project to do this for you.  You could also ask some of the
>>> OpenSim developers directly if they are interested in working for bounty if
>>> you can raise the funds.  Another problem right now is most of the
>>> developers are way to busy to organize fund raising events, and from my
>>> experience Money doesnt always solve problems, and can tend to complicate
>>> things to the point they never actually get done, because once the funds run
>>> out work just flat out stops and is very difficult to get going again.   One
>>> thing you do not mention is what you would like to see finished or what you
>>> feel is missing or incomplete.  OpenSimulator is a very open ended project
>>> and will likely always be morphing and changing, there will likely never be
>>> an end to its development, unlike a facebook website which has very limited
>>> purpose to its goals.  I am going to assume you mean Second Life
>>> compatibility, this is really just a small piece of opensimulator and I will
>>> think that you will find that most of the people directly involved in
>>> OpenSimulator are not that interested in recreating second life, there are
>>> many avenues being pursued right now that look nothing like Second Life, one
>>> of the major factors really holding this project back is the lack of a
>>> Open-Source viewer that the OpenSimulator developers can work on that is in
>>> a usable state, the Second Life viewer source code is off limits to
>>> OpenSimulator developers and because of this making OpenSimulator be second
>>> life compatible is not always easy or even possible at all in some cases.  I
>>> think once we see viewers like Realxtend Naali and others become more usable
>>> you will see OpenSimulator move even further from trying to be a second life
>>> clone.  But these are just some of the reasons that I see OpenSimulator is
>>> taking as long as it has, and it will likely continue to take just as long
>>> no matter how much money you throw at it, but like i said, anyone who has
>>> the desire can raise funds and hire developers to get involved and
>>> contribute the code to this project, so please do not wait for the
>>> OpenSimulator developers to do this for you, as some of the developers that
>>> work for Intel Corp and IBM Corp, and others like Melanie and Justin have
>>> been paid to develop and create patches as well as for profit grids like
>>> Reaction Grid, so its not like this is really something that is not
>>> currently happening.  Hope this helps to explain atleast a little of why
>>> things are the way they are.
>>>
>>>  On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Drew Hart <drewehart at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Okay, that was my catchy title that in no way means any disrespect.  I
>>>> love OpenSim, have used it for years, tell everyone I meet about it and am a
>>>> huge fan and supporter.  Recently a question was asked about a roadmap and
>>>> progress.  I would like to expand on that.  OpenSim has now been around for
>>>> a while - like years.  Yet I can't really use it for clients.  So here is my
>>>> question.  As a non-coder, how can others help.  For example, I would gladly
>>>> donate some decent money if there were a coordinated fundraising event and a
>>>> plan to hire a couple of full-time, very qualified developers to really move
>>>> this along.
>>>>
>>>> Please, please, please don't take this the wrong way.  This is NOT a
>>>> criticism.  I know this is done by volunteers and I know that this is more
>>>> ambitious than Second Life, but have we looked at other solutions to move
>>>> the process along.  I think there are a lot of people like me who would
>>>> contribute.  But, and I stress this.  Me donating say $1,000 by myself isn't
>>>> going to do anything.  We would need a serious fundraising drive, and
>>>> specific and talented people that we could hire full-time as
>>>> consultants/coders to really move this along.
>>>>
>>>> I would imagine I am not the first to suggest this.  But every day I see
>>>> this awesome product I want to use, yet it seems months or years away from
>>>> stable wide-spread use.
>>>>
>>>> There are now several web sites that help in fundraising.  I am sure
>>>> many of you read about the NYU students that raised several hundred thousand
>>>> dollars in a short time so they could spend their summer coding a Facebook
>>>> clone (sort of).  Now if 4 undergrads can get that kind of money for a
>>>> Facebook clone, why hasn't OpenSim tried something similar.  These
>>>> fundraising sites are hot right now - let's take advantage of them!
>>>>
>>>> Please read:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/12/nyregion/12about.html
>>>>
>>>> The article was written before they raised much more money.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Drew
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Michael Emory Cerquoni - Nebadon Izumi @ http://osgrid.org
>>>
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>>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> Michael Emory Cerquoni - Nebadon Izumi @ http://osgrid.org
>
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