<div><br></div><div><b><i>> if your paying people to create patches that wont </i></b></div><div><b><i>> be accepted into core this could create problems </i></b></div><div><b><i>> for the fund raisers in the end.</i></b></div>
<div><br></div><div>I completely agree. If you're going to beat your drum, and try to conjur up money, then at least screw your head on straight and try to get a grasp on what it is that you're trying to accomplish.</div>
<div><br></div><div>You may want to turn OpenSim into a wonderful gaming engine, with some of the best graphics in the world. That's great, and I'd love to see it as well, but what will end up getting accepted into core is a totally different subject. Much of your work could just end up being wasted and useless.</div>
<div><br></div><div>There are several different major distributions out there already (realXtend, SciSim, OSGrid, Diva distribution, etc.).</div><div><br></div><div>Sit down, think about what distribution it is that you use the most, and then figure out what you want fixed or added, and then begin to solicit help from the dev's, or simply open up a discussion here on the list, and see if what you are asking to do can even be done.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Then ask for a quote as to how much it would cost to have it done (approx man hours x hourly rate) or possibly a flat fee for the job, and then go conjur up your financial support (to cover the costs of that work) and just make sure before you do something that it's discussed thoroughly in the threads, so that the core dev's know what it is that you're trying to do, and whether or not it will even get accepted into core.</div>
<div><br></div><div>Then try to hire someone from core to do the work for you, because that's your best chance of it getting put into core. ;-)</div><br><br><div><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 1:17 AM, Michael Cerquoni <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nebadon2025@gmail.com">nebadon2025@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">good points Diva, anyone who is going to submit patches to core should work closely with the core developers to make sure the work they are doing will be accepted into core, this gets back to the just throwing money at the problem can create more problems than it solves, if your paying people to create patches that wont be accepted into core this could create problems for the fund raisers in the end. Just be sure your very open and accountable for the things you say and do and there shouldn't be to many problems.<div>
<div></div><div class="h5"><br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Diva Canto <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:diva@metaverseink.com" target="_blank">diva@metaverseink.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#ffffff" text="#000000">
That's all great and good. Let's just make sure that we are all in the
same page wrt expectations. <br>
<br>
I've read in your emails references to some undisclosed final goal; it
shows in the subject of this thread ("taking so long" to get where?),
as well as in expressions such as "how non-programmers can help the
code *move along*" -- where to? What this means is that you have a
final goal in mind. I don't know what your final goal/vision is, but
note that your final goal/vision may not be the same as that of lots of
people here, and it's really important that you understand that. This
is so that you don't get the wrong impression that by raising money and
paying someone to do some things you want done, those things will
automatically be a part of the OpenSimulator core distribution. They
may or they may not be, depending on many factors. Some things, as
useful as they may be, don't belong in the OpenSimulator core
distribution; they belong in people's open or closed extensions and in
alternative distributions that target specific usage scenarios.<br>
<br>
So before you go out raising money like those 4 kids in NYC, I strongly
suggest you sit down and think what it is that you would like to see
done that is not done yet. Then think what's the best mechanism for
making those things come to life. (those 4 kids could have used the
same advice...)<br>
<br>
Your emails show a slight expectation drift, which may cause some grief
in the future. Besides the standalone simulator, the OpenSimulator
project is not meant to produce an out-of-the-box anything. People
wanting to develop applications and services on top of OpenSim must
invest a lot of extra effort to make those applications and services
come to life. If you are waiting for OpenSim to enable an offer to your
clients without effort on your part, you are in for a big
disappointment.<br>
<br>
As Karen pointed here, there are many ways that non coders can help the
project. Freely distributable content is one area where we are clearly
in need of good Samaritans.<div><div></div><div><br>
<br>
On 7/8/2010 2:20 PM, Drew Hart wrote:
<blockquote type="cite">I will contact you offlist Wordfromthe Wise. And what was
said makes sense. I guess my only concern, and I am serious about
doing some serious fundraising, is the use of the name Open Simulator.
I guess if I raised money and laid out my position, that I am an
independent third party interested in hiring coders to contribute to
OpenSim, that should make using the name okay (people would know I am
not officially conected)? Also, we would need some independent
"observer/accountant" to make sure everything is cool and the money
spent wisely, but I know several that would volunteer their time to do
that (attorneys/accountants). So if anyone else wants to work on
fundraising, etc., contact me at <a href="mailto:drewehart@gmail.com" target="_blank">drewehart@gmail.com</a>. Or if
anyone has other ideas on how non-programmers can help the code move
along, I am open to anything. Even if some of the experts want to hold
some training sessions so we can learn coding - though I am not sure if
that is practicable. Thanks,<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Michael
Cerquoni <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nebadon2025@gmail.com" target="_blank">nebadon2025@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">One
of the problems with OpenSimulator project doing this, is it is not an
established company. There is no central office or managers for this
project. That aside if you wanted to try to raise funds to hire
programmers who will submit their code you could certainly do that, you
do not need OpenSimulator project to do this for you. You could also
ask some of the OpenSim developers directly if they are interested in
working for bounty if you can raise the funds. Another problem right
now is most of the developers are way to busy to organize fund raising
events, and from my experience Money doesnt always solve problems, and
can tend to complicate things to the point they never actually get
done, because once the funds run out work just flat out stops and is
very difficult to get going again. One thing you do not mention is
what you would like to see finished or what you feel is missing or
incomplete. OpenSimulator is a very open ended project and will likely
always be morphing and changing, there will likely never be an end to
its development, unlike a facebook website which has very limited
purpose to its goals. I am going to assume you mean Second Life
compatibility, this is really just a small piece of opensimulator and I
will think that you will find that most of the people directly involved
in OpenSimulator are not that interested in recreating second life,
there are many avenues being pursued right now that look nothing like
Second Life, one of the major factors really holding this project back
is the lack of a Open-Source viewer that the OpenSimulator developers
can work on that is in a usable state, the Second Life viewer source
code is off limits to OpenSimulator developers and because of this
making OpenSimulator be second life compatible is not always easy or
even possible at all in some cases. I think once we see viewers like
Realxtend Naali and others become more usable you will see
OpenSimulator move even further from trying to be a second life clone.
But these are just some of the reasons that I see OpenSimulator is
taking as long as it has, and it will likely continue to take just as
long no matter how much money you throw at it, but like i said, anyone
who has the desire can raise funds and hire developers to get involved
and contribute the code to this project, so please do not wait for the
OpenSimulator developers to do this for you, as some of the developers
that work for Intel Corp and IBM Corp, and others like Melanie and
Justin have been paid to develop and create patches as well as for
profit grids like Reaction Grid, so its not like this is really
something that is not currently happening. Hope this helps to explain
atleast a little of why things are the way they are.<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div>On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Drew Hart <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:drewehart@gmail.com" target="_blank">drewehart@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204);margin:0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex;padding-left:1ex">
<div>
<div>
<div>Okay, that was my catchy title that in no way means any
disrespect. I love OpenSim, have used it for years, tell everyone I
meet about it and am a huge fan and supporter. Recently a question was
asked about a roadmap and progress. I would like to expand on that.
OpenSim has now been around for a while - like years. Yet I can't
really use it for clients. So here is my question. As a non-coder,
how can others help. For example, I would gladly donate some decent
money if there were a coordinated fundraising event and a plan to hire
a couple of full-time, very qualified developers to really move this
along.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Please, please, please don't take this the wrong way. This
is NOT a criticism. I know this is done by volunteers and I know that
this is more ambitious than Second Life, but have we looked at other
solutions to move the process along. I think there are a lot of people
like me who would contribute. But, and I stress this. Me donating say
$1,000 by myself isn't going to do anything. We would need a serious
fundraising drive, and specific and talented people that we could hire
full-time as consultants/coders to really move this along.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>I would imagine I am not the first to suggest this. But
every day I see this awesome product I want to use, yet it seems months
or years away from stable wide-spread use.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>There are now several web sites that help in fundraising. I
am sure many of you read about the NYU students that raised several
hundred thousand dollars in a short time so they could spend their
summer coding a Facebook clone (sort of). Now if 4 undergrads can get
that kind of money for a Facebook clone, why hasn't OpenSim tried
something similar. These fundraising sites are hot right now - let's
take advantage of them!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Please read:</div>
<div> </div>
<div><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/12/nyregion/12about.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/12/nyregion/12about.html</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>The article was written before they raised much more money.</div>
<div> </div>
<font color="#888888">
<div> </div>
<div>Drew</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
</font><br>
</div>
</div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<font color="#888888"><br>
<br clear="all">
<br>
-- <br>
Michael Emory Cerquoni - Nebadon Izumi @ <a href="http://osgrid.org/" target="_blank">http://osgrid.org</a><br>
</font><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
<br>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br>
<pre><fieldset></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
Opensim-dev mailing list
<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a>
<a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a>
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de" target="_blank">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Michael Emory Cerquoni - Nebadon Izumi @ <a href="http://osgrid.org" target="_blank">http://osgrid.org</a><br>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
Opensim-dev mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de">Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev" target="_blank">https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>