[Opensim-dev] OpenSim - What's Taking so long
Melanie
melanie at t-data.com
Thu Jul 8 22:56:18 UTC 2010
In my opinion, if someone funds open source development on
OpenSimulator, they can say they are funding OpenSimulator development.
I did EXCLUDE uses of the name to describe or promote/endorse
anything else.
Melanie
Justin Clark-Casey wrote:
> On 08/07/10 22:20, Drew Hart wrote:
>> I will contact you offlist Wordfromthe Wise. And what was said makes
>> sense. I guess my only concern, and I am serious about doing some
>> serious fundraising, is the use of the name Open Simulator. I guess if
>> I raised money and laid out my position, that I am an independent third
>> party interested in hiring coders to contribute to OpenSim, that should
>> make using the name okay (people would know I am not officially
>> conected)? Also, we would need some independent "observer/accountant"
>> to make sure everything is cool and the money spent wisely, but I know
>> several that would volunteer their time to do that
>> (attorneys/accountants). So if anyone else wants to work on
>> fundraising, etc., contact me at drewehart at gmail.com
>> <mailto:drewehart at gmail.com>. Or if anyone has other ideas on how
>> non-programmers can help the code move along, I am open to anything.
>> Even if some of the experts want to hold some training sessions so we
>> can learn coding - though I am not sure if that is practicable. Thanks,
>
> Sorry to start off heavy, but please could you not use the name "OpenSimulator" as part of any external project name. I
> have to disagree with Melanie about this - I think that this has to apply to all projects whether commercial or not. We
> need to avoid confusion about what is directly OpenSimulator - as far as I understand if we don't defend this name then
> anybody could start using it since we could not subsequently protect it as a trademark.
>
> I don't think there's any issue with using "OpenSimulator" in any support text.
>
> I don't think that the comparison with Diaspora really applies. Diaspora are starting from scratch with a set of
> friends who can create a structure that can easily handle funding. OpenSim has been going for quite a while with a
> diverse set of developers with different interests where it becomes much harder to retrofit certain kinds of organization.
>
> Diaspora are operating in a space with huge interest. Virtual worlds/environments, though there obviously are
> passionate people involved (not least on this list) are very much less popular.
>
> Diaspora, as Michael mentioned, are tackling a fairly well-defined problem, albeit in an innovative way. Virtual
> environments servers, on the other hand, don't really solve a problem in themselves but provide a platform for doing
> lots of other diverse and interesting things, which I feel makes incorporating all these interests in a funded
> environment much harder.
>
> Moreover, money brings with it organizational overhead. You've already mentioned the need for independent
> observers/accountants and attorneys. And when one starts employing developers directly the question becomes who sets
> their agenda and who decides who is employed. This is why direct employment and bounties tend to be easier (though I'm
> not a great fan of bounties).
>
> In fact, if there really is money and interest out there, one thing that I would suggest is setting up a downstream
> distribution project of OpenSim, much like the Diva distribution. In miniature, this is like Debian's (or other Linux
> distro's) relationship with Linux. That way, there wouldn't be the high difficulty of trying to change an existing
> developer-oriented culture - instead the distro could start off with whatever structure and philosophy it pleased. It
> could still fundraise and contribute changes/features back to OpenSim but at the same time it could do stuff which is
> always going to be hard in OpenSimulator itself (such as incorporate certain library content by default or add on web
> admin code).
>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Michael Cerquoni <nebadon2025 at gmail.com
>> <mailto:nebadon2025 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> One of the problems with OpenSimulator project doing this, is it is
>> not an established company. There is no central office or managers
>> for this project. That aside if you wanted to try to raise funds to
>> hire programmers who will submit their code you could certainly do
>> that, you do not need OpenSimulator project to do this for you. You
>> could also ask some of the OpenSim developers directly if they are
>> interested in working for bounty if you can raise the funds.
>> Another problem right now is most of the developers are way to busy
>> to organize fund raising events, and from my experience Money doesnt
>> always solve problems, and can tend to complicate things to the
>> point they never actually get done, because once the funds run out
>> work just flat out stops and is very difficult to get going again.
>> One thing you do not mention is what you would like to see finished
>> or what you feel is missing or incomplete. OpenSimulator is a very
>> open ended project and will likely always be morphing and changing,
>> there will likely never be an end to its development, unlike a
>> facebook website which has very limited purpose to its goals. I am
>> going to assume you mean Second Life compatibility, this is really
>> just a small piece of opensimulator and I will think that you will
>> find that most of the people directly involved in OpenSimulator are
>> not that interested in recreating second life, there are many
>> avenues being pursued right now that look nothing like Second Life,
>> one of the major factors really holding this project back is the
>> lack of a Open-Source viewer that the OpenSimulator developers can
>> work on that is in a usable state, the Second Life viewer source
>> code is off limits to OpenSimulator developers and because of this
>> making OpenSimulator be second life compatible is not always easy or
>> even possible at all in some cases. I think once we see viewers
>> like Realxtend Naali and others become more usable you will see
>> OpenSimulator move even further from trying to be a second life
>> clone. But these are just some of the reasons that I see
>> OpenSimulator is taking as long as it has, and it will likely
>> continue to take just as long no matter how much money you throw at
>> it, but like i said, anyone who has the desire can raise funds and
>> hire developers to get involved and contribute the code to this
>> project, so please do not wait for the OpenSimulator developers to
>> do this for you, as some of the developers that work for Intel Corp
>> and IBM Corp, and others like Melanie and Justin have been paid to
>> develop and create patches as well as for profit grids like Reaction
>> Grid, so its not like this is really something that is not currently
>> happening. Hope this helps to explain atleast a little of why
>> things are the way they are.
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 8, 2010 at 7:38 AM, Drew Hart <drewehart at gmail.com
>> <mailto:drewehart at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Okay, that was my catchy title that in no way means any
>> disrespect. I love OpenSim, have used it for years, tell
>> everyone I meet about it and am a huge fan and supporter.
>> Recently a question was asked about a roadmap and progress. I
>> would like to expand on that. OpenSim has now been around for a
>> while - like years. Yet I can't really use it for clients. So
>> here is my question. As a non-coder, how can others help. For
>> example, I would gladly donate some decent money if there were a
>> coordinated fundraising event and a plan to hire a couple of
>> full-time, very qualified developers to really move this along.
>> Please, please, please don't take this the wrong way. This is
>> NOT a criticism. I know this is done by volunteers and I know
>> that this is more ambitious than Second Life, but have we looked
>> at other solutions to move the process along. I think there are
>> a lot of people like me who would contribute. But, and I stress
>> this. Me donating say $1,000 by myself isn't going to do
>> anything. We would need a serious fundraising drive, and
>> specific and talented people that we could hire full-time as
>> consultants/coders to really move this along.
>> I would imagine I am not the first to suggest this. But every
>> day I see this awesome product I want to use, yet it seems
>> months or years away from stable wide-spread use.
>> There are now several web sites that help in fundraising. I am
>> sure many of you read about the NYU students that raised several
>> hundred thousand dollars in a short time so they could spend
>> their summer coding a Facebook clone (sort of). Now if 4
>> undergrads can get that kind of money for a Facebook clone, why
>> hasn't OpenSim tried something similar. These fundraising sites
>> are hot right now - let's take advantage of them!
>> Please read:
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/12/nyregion/12about.html
>> The article was written before they raised much more money.
>> <http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2010/05/12/nyregion/12about.html?scp=3&sq=nyu%20programmers&st=cse>
>>
>> Drew
>>
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>>
>> --
>> Michael Emory Cerquoni - Nebadon Izumi @ http://osgrid.org
>> <http://osgrid.org/>
>>
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