[Opensim-dev] Ruth vs Gas Clouds: Bug or feature?

Thu May 14 23:21:02 UTC 2009

Do you know of any sample code that does this? I wrote this up a while
ago, but it doesn't contain those baking functions:

http://opensimulator.org/wiki/Building_a_bot

-p

On May 14, 2009, at 6:58 PM, Dahlia Trimble wrote:

> There is a baking method in libomv, but it is not as feature- 
> complete as the one in the LL viewer and may fail if incompatible  
> layers exist, or not all layers are available such as skin/tatoo  
> layers or texture based eyes. Hence, many bot programs will not use  
> the baking code but rather rely on viewers for compositing. These  
> are the bots that appear as clouds in the 1.23 viewer; other bots  
> which can successfully use the libomv baking method appear as normal  
> avatars.
>
>
> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Paul Fishwick  
> <fishwick at cise.ufl.edu> wrote:
> perhaps the bot code (libomv) can be changed to send baked
> layers to the server (LL or OpenSim)  ? I think the libomv folks
>  may be looking into this. Short of that, I'll be sticking forever  
> with
> 1.22 (as far as I know, the regular LL viewers do not time out like
> the RCs).
> -p
>
> On May 14, 2009, at 5:27 PM, Melanie wrote:
>
>> I believe I can explain this.
>>
>> JCool, the creator of the Emerald Viewer, has been able to shed some
>> light on this, since his viewer has been using a similar feature
>> from the start.
>>
>> Bots largely depend on viewer compositing, this means they send the
>> individual clothing layers, but no baked ones, and the viewing
>> user's viewer composites them into a viewable avatar.
>>
>> Starting from 1.23, LL viewer no longer send, or expect, compositing
>> layers. Avatars no longer carry texture information about their
>> individual clothing items. This is to combat theft, avatars now
>> carry only the 3 baked textures. Therefore, Copybot can no longer
>> rip clothing from an avatar it sees.
>>
>> Because of this, the "Cloud" stage is perceived to be longer on 1.23
>> users, as they don't render until the bakes have been pushed to the
>> server and then downloaded by the other clients. An avatar counts as
>> unloaded if it's visual params are the default ones OR it has no
>> baked textures. Previously, it would count as unloaded only if it
>> had no textures at all, or all default visual params.
>>
>> Since bots don't bake, they will never render for users of the 1.23,
>> since it neither creates not expects compositing layers.
>>
>> Conversely, users of the Emerald Viewer, which features clothing
>> protection, appear as light grey avatars until the baked textures
>> are pushed to the server.
>>
>> Melanie
>> Arthur Valadares wrote:
>>> Paul,
>>>
>>> True, many issues are coming with the 1.23, but what really scares  
>>> me is
>>> that this issue is happening on 1.22 and Hippo 0.5.1. So it would be
>>> nice we could fix 1.22 issues before cracking heads on the 1.23 ones
>>> (and they are coming from what I've heard, that's for sure)
>>>
>>> On Thu, 2009-05-14 at 16:47 -0400, Paul Fishwick wrote:
>>>> This has been reported on JIRA at Linden Labs, and seems to  
>>>> occur, at
>>>> least for me, only with the new Release Candidate (RC) 1.23.  
>>>> Version
>>>> 1.22
>>>> does not exhibit the problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With RC Version 1.23 and an LL server, all bots are rendered
>>>> as clouds. I noticed this first with Kristen's S17 viewer which is
>>>> built
>>>> on 1.23, but the regular RC has the same problem.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> With RC Version 1.23 and an OpenSim server, all avatars (including
>>>> bots) are rendered as clouds.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> So, this is indeed a major issue with the upcoming LL client. For
>>>> reference
>>>> see:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-13386
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There are many related issues, including the clothing one you  
>>>> mention.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -p
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On May 14, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Arthur Valadares wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi everyone..
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been looking into a "bug" where if you get a brand new avatar
>>>>> and
>>>>> create pants, shirt, shape and skin and wear all of them, you turn
>>>>> into
>>>>> a gas cloud. After lot's of research, it seems this is "kind of"
>>>>> expected behavior. Let me try to explain what I think is  
>>>>> happening.
>>>>>
>>>>> After SL Viewer 1.20, Ruth no longer existed. If you took off all
>>>>> wearables, you would now become a cloud of gas. Apparently, the
>>>>> viewer
>>>>> thinks that if you use all those 4 wearables without changing
>>>>> anything,
>>>>> you have become Ruth, and so you should now be a cloud of gas. If
>>>>> you
>>>>> make the 4 wearables, but change ANY parameter, you no longer  
>>>>> become
>>>>> a
>>>>> cloud of gas . The thing is on OpenSim you start as Ruth, and  
>>>>> not as
>>>>> a
>>>>> cloud of gas! Which is kind of confusing that the viewer thinks  
>>>>> you
>>>>> become Ruth when you're actually trying not to.
>>>>>
>>>>> So I wanted to gather some ideas on how to circumvent this, if my
>>>>> assumptions are correct, or get corrected otherwise. I can only
>>>>> think of
>>>>> creating default clothing, like Second Life does.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks all!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Arthur Valadares <arthursv at linux.vnet.ibm.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Paul Fishwick, PhD
>>>> Professor
>>>> Director, Digital Arts and Sciences Programs
>>>> Computer and Information Sciences and Engineering Dept.
>>>> PO Box 116120
>>>> Bldg. CSE, Room 301
>>>> Gainesville, Florida 32611
>>>> Web: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick
>>>> Ph: (352) 392-1414
>>>> Fax: (352) 392-1220
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
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>
> Paul Fishwick, PhD
> Professor
> Director, Digital Arts and Sciences Programs
> Computer and Information Sciences and Engineering Dept.
> PO Box 116120
> Bldg. CSE, Room 301
> Gainesville, Florida 32611
> Web: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick
> Ph: (352) 392-1414
> Fax: (352) 392-1220
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Opensim-dev mailing list
> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev

Paul Fishwick, PhD
Professor
Director, Digital Arts and Sciences Programs
Computer and Information Sciences and Engineering Dept.
PO Box 116120
Bldg. CSE, Room 301
Gainesville, Florida 32611
Web: http://www.cise.ufl.edu/~fishwick
Ph: (352) 392-1414
Fax: (352) 392-1220

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