[Opensim-dev] adding unneeded complexity to OpenSim.ini

Sat Mar 14 19:42:58 UTC 2009

With all due respect,

I would have to agree with Melanie, Paul Fishwick, Charles, Chris and all
the others that seem very concerned about this foolishly insane concept.

Why make things much more complex than they really need to be?

Melanie stated:

 *> Has anyone notices how impossibly complicated, complex and
> unmaintainable this is going to become?
> Instead of demanding the user read a simple set of instructions,
> then do the RightThing, you try to do all their thinking for them,
> resulting in something that will make neither novice nor grid
> operator happy.
>
> You are increasing, not decreasing, complexity and the effort to get
> up and running.*

I completely agree with her statement as well.  The point of doing things
(as a developer) is to make things EASIER (not harder) for the users, Grid
Operators, Administrators, and this seems to go in the exact opposite
direction of where the users/grid operators would want to go.

Please let's NOT make things any harder or any more complicated than they
really need to be.  (Remember the phrase "Keep it simple stupid").  As Chris
has mentioned, simple ASCII text files (ini files) have worked for decades.
We don't need to get rid of any directory structures (directories are what
keeps things neat, organized, and orderly.  Folders are a good thing).  One
simple ASCII text configuration file is the simplest solution, and it works
for MySQL, Apache, and all the others, so why change something that isn't
broken?

Just to make things more complicated?  Make things more difficult and
complex?  Create havok?  Just to break things?  It really makes no sense.

Chris said things pretty well in his comment:

*> I'm deeply with Melanie and Paul Fishwick on this.
> Section delimiters in a single ASCII text configs have
> served computer science very well for many years.*
*> Why fix it if it "ain't" broke?  OpenSim works pretty
>well (plus a small learning curve) right out of the box.*
**
I certainly would have to agree.  Stick with what works.  If you want to
make our lives simpler, work on some nice powerful GUI's or something that
will make our lives easier as grid operators/administrators, and make a nice
GUI that will modify the ini files for us.  But leave the ini's and folder
structure the way they are.  No reason to break things that aren't broken.
Some people (such as myself) prefer a nice simple text file (in one spot)
that we can edit and modify.

It keeps the tutorials simple, and gets users up and running extremely
quickly, and the "learning curve" is reduced (with a simple and single ASCI
text ini file).  The folder and directory structure makes sense, so please
just leave it be.

         Thanks,

           Mark

On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 10:12 AM, Charles Krinke <cfk at pacbell.net> wrote:

>  I have to admit puzzlement on this complexity also.
>
> But, as I read all this, I would also urge that if a significant change is
> made that a wiki entry can be made so that the question : "My OpenSim doesnt
> work anymore and I think it is config?" can be answered :
> http://opensimulator.org/wiki/<newOpenSimIniConfigDirectoryChanges>
>
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Ovi Chris Rouly <maelzel at ieee.org>
> *To:* opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> *Sent:* Saturday, March 14, 2009 6:30:21 AM
> *Subject:* [Opensim-dev] adding unneeded complexity to OpenSim.ini
>
> Dear All,
>
> I'm deeply with Melanie and Paul Fishwick on this.
> Section delimiters in a single ASCII text configs have
> served computer science very well for many years.
>
> Why fix it if it "ain't" broke?  OpenSim works pretty
> well (plus a small learning curve) right out of the box.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Chris
>
>
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 14 Mar 2009 09:35:48 +0000
> > From: Melanie <melanie at t-data.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Round 2: Config changes preview
> > To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> > Message-ID: <49BB7A74.6070901 at t-data.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> >
> > Has anyone notices how impossibly complicated, complex and
> > unmaintainable this is going to become?
> > Instead of demanding the user read a simple set of instructions,
> > then do the RightThing, you try to do all their thinking for them,
> > resulting in something that will make neither novice nor grid
> > operator happy.
> >
> > You are increasing, not decreasing, complexity and the effort to get
> > up and running.
> > Rename, copy, multiple subdirectories, even I am hard put to see any
> > sense in that, and I'm a dev, for crying out loud!
> >
> > Melanie
> >
> > Mike Mazur wrote:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> On Sat, Mar 14, 2009 at 2:34 AM, Justin Clark-Casey
> >> <jjustincc at googlemail.com> wrote:
> >>> In this version I've done away with all the subdirectories.  There is
> >>> now a simpler structure
> >>>
> >>> config/OpenSim.ini.example
> >>> config/defaults
> >>> config/override
> >>
> >> On first glance, it's not obvious how the config files in these
> >> directories are treated. Is the defaults/ directory scanned for valid
> >> .ini files which are then processed?
> >>
> >> The defaults/ directory contains scripting.ini.defaults. To enable
> >> these settings, what should the user do? Rename to
> >> defaults/scripting.ini, then edit? Is it necessary to copy to
> >> override/scripting.ini and edit instead?
> >>
> >> In my opinion, having both a directory a *.ini.defaults extensions is
> >> one too many. Perhaps we can get away with the two directories
> >> containing only .ini files?
> >>
> >> config/OpenSim.ini.example
> >> config/available/*.ini
> >> config/override/*.ini
> >>
> >> Or we could have just one directory which contains *.ini.defaults (or
> >> *.ini.example) files alongside *.ini files:
> >>
> >> config/OpenSim.ini.example
> >> config/*.ini{,.defaults}
> >>
> >> To enable settings, just rename <whatever>.ini.defaults to
> >> <whatever>.ini.
> >>
> >> Mike
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> >> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> > End of Opensim-dev Digest, Vol 19, Issue 37
> > *******************************************
> >
>
>
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