[Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?

Thu Jul 9 09:21:59 UTC 2009

You've won the prize of "Common sense guy of the year".

+1 on separating discussions... I'm lost since 7th or 8th message

2009/7/9 Stefan Andersson <lbsa71 at hotmail.com>

>  This discussion went west pretty fast it seems.
>
>
>
> To try to get things on track; this is what I’ve heard said, and proposed,
> in roughly this proposed order:
>
>
>
> 1)      The BUST architecture might or might not change name. **This is a
> separate item for discussion**.
>
> 2)      The BUST architecture should be documented. This documentation is
> allegedly on the way, but should be seen as a work in progress, like always.
>
> 3)      After discussing it thru, reviewing documentation, proofing and
> accepting BUST, there will be a round of voting on a proposal to retire the
> old exes from the core distro. Everything will ideally work the same, just
> that the new exes are configured differently, and allows for way better
> modularization.
>
> 4)      The Cable Beach offspring AssetInventoryServer might or might not
> move out of core. **This is a separate item for discussion**.
>
> 5)      After retiring the old exes, we can start documenting and peer
> reviewing ideas for how a new set of protocols (OGS2) could work. **This
> is a separate item for discussion**.
>
> 6)      Whether this new protocol should be developed in or outside of
> trunk is part of that separate discussion.
>
> 7)      BUST will allow OGS1 and OGS2 to exist side by side.
>
> 8)      OGS1 might or might not be retired. **This is a separate item for
> discussion**
>
>
>
> I think the vote to retire the exes came somewhat prematurely, jilting
> people. Let’s keep these tracks well separated and move along in an orderly
> fashion.
>
>
>
> Just to put things in perspective, I would estimate bullets 5-8 probably to
> be during 2010. Point 8 probably more around early 2011.
>
>
>
> /Stefan
>
>
>
> *From:* opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:
> opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] *On Behalf Of *MW
> *Sent:* den 9 juli 2009 02:43
>
> *To:* opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> *Subject:* Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and
> OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?
>
>
>
> Where are all these remarks of great acclaim? This is the first I've heard
> about a new protocol being designed without any plan at all.
>
> I'm all for a new protocol but there needs to be a design and peer review.
> Please stop adding any more work on a new protocol to the trunk until that
> process can take place. As my vote is -1 (and consider it a veto vote) on
> just writing it from a plan in your head when no one else knows what that
> plan is.
>
> --- On *Wed, 8/7/09, Melanie <melanie at t-data.com>* wrote:
>
>
> From: Melanie <melanie at t-data.com>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and
> OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?
> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Date: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 11:42 PM
>
> It doesn't need to be segregated. This can be done in trunk
> perfectly well. We have had bad experiences with branches and I
> believe there is a general aversion to them now.
>
> There is no need to push this outside of the core scope, especially
> since it's already well underway. This whole discussion has been
> totally sidetracked, questioning the project as a whole, a project
> that has won great acclaim from my fellow core members and was,
> among others, called "long overdue" and "badly needed".
>
> This entire thread came from me trying to ascertain the fundamental
> willingness to remove the monolithic servers _at some point_.
>
> Melanie
>
>
> Gryc Ueusp wrote:
> > This is what branches are for.
> >
> > Melanie wrote:
> >> This can not be reasonably done on the forge..
> >>
> >> Melanie
> >>
> >> Charles Krinke wrote:
> >>
> >>> Sounds like a good argument to put this new work on the forge.
> >>>
> >>> That way, we can get it wrung out, completed, functional, tested.
> >>>
> >>> This seems to me a reasonable and proper way to change the underlying
> grid servers without having a revolution in mid-air.
> >>>
> >>> Charles
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: Melanie <melanie at t-data.com<http://mc/compose?to=melanie@t-data.com>
> >
> >>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de<http://mc/compose?to=opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de>
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 2:51:39 PM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and
> OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?
> >>>
> >>> Which is precisely what is intended. But the old dinosaur servers
> >>> are in the way.
> >>>
> >>> You can rest assured no grids will be harmed in the making of these
> >>> servers - to paraphrase the movie industry....
> >>>
> >>> Melanie
> >>>
> >>> Charles Krinke wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> I believe it is pretty important to ensure that we go forwards in a
> compatible manner and not backwards.
> >>>>
> >>>> Certainly new implementations of servers, executables, protocols and
> the like are encouraged, but we also need to make sure that everything
> continues to work.
> >>>>
> >>>> Perhaps this new work should be on the forge. Perhaps it should be
> done in such a way that the users can ultimately determine which server is
> appropriate in a similar manner to differing physics implementations.
> >>>>
> >>>> But, regardless, I believe that moving forward in a compatible manner
> and making sure we dont shoot ourselves in the foot is very important. I
> would counsel caution *and* I would counsel some independent testing to make
> sure we are moving forward in a predictable manner.
> >>>>
> >>>> Charles
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>> From: Melanie <melanie at t-data.com<http://mc/compose?to=melanie@t-data.com>
> >
> >>>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de<http://mc/compose?to=opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de>
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 2:43:17 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and
> OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?
> >>>>
> >>>> This is not going to happen on the drawing board. It can't. And also
> >>>> it would be taking the second step before the first.
> >>>>
> >>>> First, the existing protocols are converted to services, as it has
> >>>> already happened to asset and inventory services. Those can then run
> >>>> in B.U.S.T. with full compatibility.
> >>>>
> >>>> Then the old server needs to go away. At this point one code base
> >>>> has been replaced with another one without protocol changes.
> >>>>
> >>>> This creates a scenario where new protocols can be developed and
> >>>> tested without breaking things. Here the protocols will evolve as
> >>>> they are coded.
> >>>>
> >>>> Finally, the new protocols will replace the old, after they have
> >>>> been tested and used in production by early adopters.
> >>>>
> >>>> Melanie
> >>>>
> >>>> MW wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Well as Justin said, there needs to be plans/documents detailing all
> the details of the replacement protocols before the process of replacing
> them is began.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- On Wed, 8/7/09, Melanie <melanie at t-data.com<http://mc/compose?to=melanie@t-data.com>>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From: Melanie <melanie at t-data.com<http://mc/compose?to=melanie@t-data.com>
> >
> >>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and
> OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?
> >>>>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de<http://mc/compose?to=opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de>
> >>>>> Date: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 9:08 PM
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Justin Clark-Casey wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> But the real question was about your statement
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> "But changes are planned as we are moving to more sane protocols."
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> source:
> https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/opensim-dev/2009-July/006992.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Who is the 'we' in this?  What are these protocols?  Why are they
> more sane, etc., etc.?  This is an entirely different
> >>>>>> question to generalizing the OpenSim grid servers.  Perhaps they
> were not meant to be mixed up in this.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>> "We" is all of us, the project, for one, and Diva and I as the devs
> >>>>> driving this change, too.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Today's wire protocols are not sane. There is no point in
> >>>>> transferring ALL the user's inventory to EVERY region visited, just
> >>>>> to get the root folder ID, which is the only thing needed from that
> >>>>> potentially HUGE blob.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Just to mention one known bit of insanity.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Another part that is not sane is the user services. They aren't
> >>>>> natively equipped to handle the concept of no authentication or HG,
> >>>>> or user levels, or scopes. They mix in data items that don't belong
> >>>>> together just because Linden did.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Assets were already made RESTful and so the asset protocol was
> >>>>> preserved unchanged.
> >>>>> The grid server protocol is a lean one and changes will be minimal
> >>>>> (probably just a XMLRPC->REST conversion if they're not REST already)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Presence is totally insane again. It needs to be ripped out and
> >>>>> redone, now that we know more about real world demands large grids
> >>>>> place on the servers.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> With the modular architecture, that is a simple as snapping in
> >>>>> another connector. so if your grid uses a new RESTful gridserver
> >>>>> protocol, you just use the RESTGridConnector rather than the
> >>>>> XMLLRPCGridConnector. The service providers and consumers stay the
> same.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The monolithic servers can't cope with that, so they need to go.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Melanie
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
> >>>>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de<http://mc/compose?to=Opensim-dev@lists.berlios.de>
> >>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>
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> >>>>
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> >>>
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> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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> >>>
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> >>
> >>
> >
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