[Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?
Melanie
melanie at t-data.com
Thu Jul 9 09:15:30 UTC 2009
I would hope it to be quicker, but the summarization and separation
you did down there is a good one.
Melanie
Stefan Andersson wrote:
> This discussion went west pretty fast it seems.
>
>
>
> To try to get things on track; this is what I've heard said, and proposed,
> in roughly this proposed order:
>
>
>
> 1) The BUST architecture might or might not change name. *This is a
> separate item for discussion*.
>
> 2) The BUST architecture should be documented. This documentation is
> allegedly on the way, but should be seen as a work in progress, like always.
>
> 3) After discussing it thru, reviewing documentation, proofing and
> accepting BUST, there will be a round of voting on a proposal to retire the
> old exes from the core distro. Everything will ideally work the same, just
> that the new exes are configured differently, and allows for way better
> modularization.
>
> 4) The Cable Beach offspring AssetInventoryServer might or might not
> move out of core. *This is a separate item for discussion*.
>
> 5) After retiring the old exes, we can start documenting and peer
> reviewing ideas for how a new set of protocols (OGS2) could work. *This is a
> separate item for discussion*.
>
> 6) Whether this new protocol should be developed in or outside of trunk
> is part of that separate discussion.
>
> 7) BUST will allow OGS1 and OGS2 to exist side by side.
>
> 8) OGS1 might or might not be retired. *This is a separate item for
> discussion*
>
>
>
> I think the vote to retire the exes came somewhat prematurely, jilting
> people. Let's keep these tracks well separated and move along in an orderly
> fashion.
>
>
>
> Just to put things in perspective, I would estimate bullets 5-8 probably to
> be during 2010. Point 8 probably more around early 2011.
>
>
>
> /Stefan
>
>
>
> From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de
> [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of MW
> Sent: den 9 juli 2009 02:43
> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and
> OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?
>
>
>
>
> Where are all these remarks of great acclaim? This is the first I've heard
> about a new protocol being designed without any plan at all.
>
> I'm all for a new protocol but there needs to be a design and peer review.
> Please stop adding any more work on a new protocol to the trunk until that
> process can take place. As my vote is -1 (and consider it a veto vote) on
> just writing it from a plan in your head when no one else knows what that
> plan is.
>
> --- On Wed, 8/7/09, Melanie <melanie at t-data.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: Melanie <melanie at t-data.com>
> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and
> OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?
> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
> Date: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 11:42 PM
>
> It doesn't need to be segregated. This can be done in trunk
> perfectly well. We have had bad experiences with branches and I
> believe there is a general aversion to them now.
>
> There is no need to push this outside of the core scope, especially
> since it's already well underway. This whole discussion has been
> totally sidetracked, questioning the project as a whole, a project
> that has won great acclaim from my fellow core members and was,
> among others, called "long overdue" and "badly needed".
>
> This entire thread came from me trying to ascertain the fundamental
> willingness to remove the monolithic servers _at some point_.
>
> Melanie
>
>
> Gryc Ueusp wrote:
>> This is what branches are for.
>>
>> Melanie wrote:
>>> This can not be reasonably done on the forge..
>>>
>>> Melanie
>>>
>>> Charles Krinke wrote:
>>>
>>>> Sounds like a good argument to put this new work on the forge.
>>>>
>>>> That way, we can get it wrung out, completed, functional, tested.
>>>>
>>>> This seems to me a reasonable and proper way to change the underlying
> grid servers without having a revolution in mid-air.
>>>>
>>>> Charles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Melanie <melanie at t-data.com>
>>>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 2:51:39 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and
> OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?
>>>>
>>>> Which is precisely what is intended. But the old dinosaur servers
>>>> are in the way.
>>>>
>>>> You can rest assured no grids will be harmed in the making of these
>>>> servers - to paraphrase the movie industry....
>>>>
>>>> Melanie
>>>>
>>>> Charles Krinke wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I believe it is pretty important to ensure that we go forwards in a
> compatible manner and not backwards.
>>>>>
>>>>> Certainly new implementations of servers, executables, protocols and
> the like are encouraged, but we also need to make sure that everything
> continues to work.
>>>>>
>>>>> Perhaps this new work should be on the forge. Perhaps it should be done
> in such a way that the users can ultimately determine which server is
> appropriate in a similar manner to differing physics implementations.
>>>>>
>>>>> But, regardless, I believe that moving forward in a compatible manner
> and making sure we dont shoot ourselves in the foot is very important. I
> would counsel caution *and* I would counsel some independent testing to make
> sure we are moving forward in a predictable manner.
>>>>>
>>>>> Charles
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Melanie <melanie at t-data.com>
>>>>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2009 2:43:17 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and
> OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?
>>>>>
>>>>> This is not going to happen on the drawing board. It can't. And also
>>>>> it would be taking the second step before the first.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, the existing protocols are converted to services, as it has
>>>>> already happened to asset and inventory services. Those can then run
>>>>> in B.U.S.T. with full compatibility.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then the old server needs to go away. At this point one code base
>>>>> has been replaced with another one without protocol changes.
>>>>>
>>>>> This creates a scenario where new protocols can be developed and
>>>>> tested without breaking things. Here the protocols will evolve as
>>>>> they are coded.
>>>>>
>>>>> Finally, the new protocols will replace the old, after they have
>>>>> been tested and used in production by early adopters.
>>>>>
>>>>> Melanie
>>>>>
>>>>> MW wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well as Justin said, there needs to be plans/documents detailing all
> the details of the replacement protocols before the process of replacing
> them is began.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --- On Wed, 8/7/09, Melanie <melanie at t-data.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: Melanie <melanie at t-data.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] Deprecate OpenSim.Grid.InventoryServer and
> OpenSim.Grid.AssetServer?
>>>>>> To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>>>>> Date: Wednesday, 8 July, 2009, 9:08 PM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Justin Clark-Casey wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But the real question was about your statement
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "But changes are planned as we are moving to more sane protocols."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> source:
> https://lists.berlios.de/pipermail/opensim-dev/2009-July/006992.html
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who is the 'we' in this? What are these protocols? Why are they
> more sane, etc., etc.? This is an entirely different
>>>>>>> question to generalizing the OpenSim grid servers. Perhaps they were
> not meant to be mixed up in this.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> "We" is all of us, the project, for one, and Diva and I as the devs
>>>>>> driving this change, too.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Today's wire protocols are not sane. There is no point in
>>>>>> transferring ALL the user's inventory to EVERY region visited, just
>>>>>> to get the root folder ID, which is the only thing needed from that
>>>>>> potentially HUGE blob.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just to mention one known bit of insanity.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another part that is not sane is the user services. They aren't
>>>>>> natively equipped to handle the concept of no authentication or HG,
>>>>>> or user levels, or scopes. They mix in data items that don't belong
>>>>>> together just because Linden did.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Assets were already made RESTful and so the asset protocol was
>>>>>> preserved unchanged.
>>>>>> The grid server protocol is a lean one and changes will be minimal
>>>>>> (probably just a XMLRPC->REST conversion if they're not REST already)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Presence is totally insane again. It needs to be ripped out and
>>>>>> redone, now that we know more about real world demands large grids
>>>>>> place on the servers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> With the modular architecture, that is a simple as snapping in
>>>>>> another connector. so if your grid uses a new RESTful gridserver
>>>>>> protocol, you just use the RESTGridConnector rather than the
>>>>>> XMLLRPCGridConnector. The service providers and consumers stay the
> same.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The monolithic servers can't cope with that, so they need to go.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Melanie
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Opensim-dev mailing list
>>>>>> Opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
>>>>>> https://lists.berlios.de/mailman/listinfo/opensim-dev
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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