[Opensim-dev] weird idea #1: lightweight agent/ spectator

[Dirk Krause]

My original point was exactly the one both of you made – there are two different use cases:
1) the ability to access a full featured avatar with the ability to walk, talk, dress etc - like it is now. I didn’t want to touch this first, but when I read Sean Dague analysis (keyword: N^2) from a couple of hours ago, I am not sure if everything is done from a technical architecture side to achieve the best performance. 

So my point was rather
2) that there is a use case for this 'event mode'. But instead of blocking all attachments and Ruth everyone, I would introduce this mode of what I called a lightweight agent.

Being able to create events with a couple of people acting and the majority of people recepting it, could IMHO be a big advantage over the original SL limitation that could really make a difference from a strategic standpoint for OpenSim as a software solution.



Von: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] Im Auftrag von Chris Hart
Gesendet: Montag, 26. Januar 2009 18:32
An: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
Betreff: Re: [Opensim-dev] weird idea #1: lightweight agent/ spectator

I certainly don’t see 1000 on a single region as remotely possible under current architecture, not disputing that. I do have to wonder what people consider as being an event suitable for 1000 people in a single region – that’s a lot of people in not a lot of space (though thinking in three dimensions might help), but what do you gain from such an event? Chat alone would be almost overwhelming, and with 95% of attendees not knowing how to pan the camera most of them would see nothing but the head of the person infront of them – so I guess if you want to emulate real life, you got it.

You’re right to push the parameters to the extreme, because in the absence of 1000 friends to test a simultaneous login, we all have to improvise, so if it’s a case of loading up as many avatars as possible with all clothing layers made with high-res textures, wearing a thousand prims each, etc. then yes, it’s not an entirely unreasonable scale test.

From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Nebadon Izumi
Sent: 26 January 2009 17:19
To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] weird idea #1: lightweight agent/ spectator

well i think your sorta missing the point, say i did reduce my avatar login footprint by 10, that would only mean that if 10 people simulatanously logged in, which if your talking about 1000 avatars at once is going to happen, it means that you will get the same results if 10 avatars hit at once, so honestly even if we reduce the footprint by 90% we still have the same problem on logins, the biggest problem i see is mass login, when your talking about getting 1000 avatars into a region for a single event, especially if it crashes you could be potentially looking at over 100 avatars trying to log in at the same time, how do we handle this??  if your talking about 1000 avatars you need to talk about exteme usage case, not just fractional usage.

Neb
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 10:17 AM, Chris Hart <Chris at codetorque.co.uk> wrote:
If a 1700 prim avatar using every attach point is not a mildly extreme case I don't know what is! ☺ The same rules apply to OpenSim as it does on SL – performance and headcount depends on the crowd you get in for an event and the design of the sim itself. Build a sim with many thousands of highly textured prims and complex scripts and you might as well just cut down your ram, step down your processor, and accept defeat. Code optimisation is nothing without a little care and attention on the part of the sim designer to make the experience as smooth as possible for attendees.
 
Maybe there's a requirement / option to have an "event" mode where you block all attachments and deny access to inventory items to maximise the number of visitors if you really want to get 1000 users in a confined space, and consider using some texture simplification on the regions in question, configurable for a region server at startup?
 
 
From: opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de [mailto:opensim-dev-bounces at lists.berlios.de] On Behalf Of Nebadon Izumi
Sent: 26 January 2009 17:01
To: opensim-dev at lists.berlios.de
Subject: Re: [Opensim-dev] weird idea #1: lightweight agent/ spectator
 
Minor mistake in my last posting, it should have read (8000 variously texture prims in the ballpark of about 500+ texures or so).

and since i am recommenting again, i think its important that when we talk about 1000 users, we are not talking about 1000 ruths with zero inventory and not chatting and doing real world things, pcampbot is a horrible representaion of 1000 like i said before every 1000 pcampbots is probably not even equal to 20 real world avatars actually doing something with the simulator.

Neb
On Mon, Jan 26, 2009 at 9:55 AM, Nebadon Izumi <nebadon2025 at gmail.com> wrote:
the only bad thing about bringing up the Pcampbot login test was at the time pcampbot was not pulling assets down from the scene locally to itself, so realisticly those 1000 pcampbots were probably generating about the same amount of login traffic that about 10-20 avatars would have been likely.  The only real solution to this problem will likely be load balancing and many servers working together to break the 100 avatar limit, the chances that 1 server will be serving 1000 avatars is completely impossible, i honestly dont think we can ever optimize it enough for even the fastest servers to deal in 1000 avatars, though i do hope we can atleast get to around 100 or more.  One test I have done recently that throws a monkey wrench into my thinking about this, my Region (OKC) Ka which is about 12000 prims and running just over 1000 scripts, when trying to log into the region with just 1 avatar that is wearing a 1700 prim avatar that uses every single attach point, i am 100% unable to log into the sim ever.  One other thing to note is that my avatar has between 11k-12k inventory items and basiclly trying to access any simulator with more than about 1000 variously textured prims in the ballpark of about 500+ textures or so (even afer running the predecode-j2k) i am unable to log in at all.  So again if 1 avatar cant access the sim, i personallly dont see 1000 avatars entering a  simulator anytime soon if at all ever, atleast like I said in the 1 server world, this is probably going to require some major hardware/pipes to achieve.

Neb
 
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